Zander
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Posts posted by Zander
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20 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:
Tsujidou feels like an attempt to capture Majikoi's charm but succeeding in achieving its own charm. It's not as good as the OG Majikoi by far, but it's still a really enjoyable read with 2 good routes and a decent common route.
Interesting. How did you feel about Ai's route, though?
- Mr Poltroon, mitchhamilton, 1P1A and 1 other
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13 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:
I'm going to be Captain Obvious here and point out that Tymmur's last post is littered with weird English errors. He usually writes with excellent English. Add that context to the post and consider how that changes your interpretation.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Tymmur's writing. His usage of intentional English errors is extremely subtle. There's also his sarcastically optimistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his Fuwanovel forum posts - his personal philosophy draws heavily from the Musumaker OP, for instance. Most of his posts just fly right over the average Fuwanoveler's head, clearly including my own.
19 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:For that matter, consider how translating without a full understanding of either the source or target language would affect one's ability to understand and convey such depth of meaning in a VN.
Yes, I understand, and that is why I stated that OP should improve their Japanese skills before starting a project. At the time I expressed any interest in helping (because I happen to be interested in this VN) I did not know their ability, hence why I asked.
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5 hours ago, Kiriririri said:
Not sure why anyone would welcome a translator whose Japanese level is something that one can reach in 1 month but
It's something that one can reach in 1 month, but that's a milestone that a very large portion of the VN community hasn't reached. The subset of people that both A) are willing to invest time and effort to learn Japanese at all and B) are willing to work on or start a translation project is rather small. There's no reason to discourage someone before they even begin.
Not to mention, as I understand it, unlike Tymmur, you're not a translator yourself. I don't think you're in a position to rebuke anyone.
With that said, I agree that OP should refine their Japanese skills before taking on an independent project, and that they should maybe leave this one to the mysterious fan translator. Their enthusiasm is to be respected, however.
- Infernoplex, Pomelo and Ramaladni
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I might be interested in editing this for you, but I have a couple questions if you don't mind...
A) What would you say your Japanese level is? You talked a bit about your English, but not so much about JP.
B) Do you intend to recruit a TLC or other positions?
On a side note, I believe I've heard of a translation project for this VN before, but I can't seem to remember when or where that was...
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10 minutes ago, SaintOfVoid said:
what´s sad is the fact companies even sell them BOTH licenses at the same time, like sakuragame is known to only really focus on the chinese part, churning out an pendant along the lines for whatever reason there is.
From a developer perspective it makes sense though. You have one agreement with one group, and your product is localised for both the Chinese and English markets without needing to do anything. Presumably, SakuraGame is much cheaper than Western localisation groups as well.
I imagine what would be most effective is to boycott SG English releases entirely, but there will always be people that buy VNs regardless of the translation quality.
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22 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:
All the best wishes to @Zander!
On 5/25/2018 at 4:46 AM, Plk_Lesiak said:Happy Birthday to you @Zander!
On 5/25/2018 at 2:03 AM, Dergonu said:Happy birthday @Zander!
On 5/24/2018 at 9:47 PM, littleshogun said:Happy birthday to our @Zander there, even though it might be too early in your region. I hope that you'll have a good year ahead.
Thank you all very much for the well-wishes. I feel both blessed and lucky to have the opportunity to enjoy the company of such fine people, and hope that all of you are able to enjoy the coming days as much as I have enjoyed my own special one.
- Plk_Lesiak and Dreamysyu
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"you can see our improvement in Fox Hime Zero"
As a man of God, I believe in forgiveness and second chances for all, and thus I have purchased Fox Hime Zero. I will report back in 1.99 hours to evaluate their claim
EDIT: Well, I can confirm they have improved, but that's not really saying much.
Even the first line of the VN has a goof
SpoilerApparently, our dear protagonist Yan has some cannabis-related aspirations
SpoilerAdditionally, 35 yuan is about 5 USD / EUR. I'm pretty sure this dude would barely be able to afford instant noodles let alone "live high"
Here we have the first conversation in the game, where Yan comes across some "scholarly looking people" travelling to town. Also Yan's first conversation with a heroine, which was baffling to say the least
SpoilerSpoilerI'm not sure why these scholarly looking people talk like middle-aged New Yorkers in a mid-life crisis. "I believe this is your tire..." "YO, there's our tire! What are you doing here, man?!" ???
Then there is garbled sentences that are just difficult to wrap your head around, or quasi-philosophical mumbo jumbo out of nowhere (which would be a ding against the VN, and not the translation to be fair, but it could definitely be more natural)
SpoilerSpoilerSo true! LOL!
To be fair, this IS an improvement from their previous releases. It is often comprehensible. It is not, however, enjoyable nor easy to read. There's grammatical errors every other line and conversations are extremely unnatural. It's a shame, too, because even though I'm not interested in this furry stuff it seems like it could be a relaxing read. The art is pleasant to look at, the heroines have quality sprites with a range of animations, and the setting is serviceable. All this really needs is a proper editor.
In any case, to return to topic at hand...
Considering that SakuraGame is incapable of handling 10 minutes of a 6-hour long fluffy story where the protagonist hasn't even spoken to anyone yet without making a mockery of the English language, and that this is the VN they pointed to as proof of their improvement... I doubt Fortissimo FA will be any better
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I think that's too subjective to determine. When it comes to video games, for example, there are people that would say the 90s-early 2000s were the golden age of RPGs with their isometric views and complex gameplay. At the same time, others say they are complete dogshit and the modern vision of RPGs like Skyrim are much better.
With visual novels specifically I don't think there's any "golden age", especially because technology does not affect VNs very much. Just like with RPGs, some people will idolise older VNs and claim newer stuff is brainless, and some people will prefer the modern art-focused moeges (unless their name is VirginSmasher). Nobody is right, nobody is correct.
For the record, my personal opinion is that all visual novels have been trash thus far.
- Happiness+, URV and 1P1A
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How curious! Personally, I doubt this is the handiwork of some anti-pornography interest group; I don't think they have the influence to pressure Valve into doing anything. It seems more likely to be related to legislature changes, or, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, Steam's soon to be released streaming app. I look forward to learning more as new information becomes available over the next few days.
I wouldn't really bat an eye at all if this only affected Huniepop and similar games. HP is the very definition of a pornographic game, with the only objective being to have sex with multiple anime girls, and I can understand Valve not wanting that to be sold on their platform.
Now that it's been revealed they're trying to censor and/or remove Kindred Spirits, I feel a bit puzzled. It is comparatively tame, presents its subject matter in a meaningful way, and is hardly pornographic compared to mainstream games that have sexual content. I wonder how they identify which titles need to be censored? Kindred Spirits has to get axed posthaste but Deep Space Waifu: Flat Justice is fine?¿?¿?
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Yes, it is. The staff ostensibly don't have time to either participate in things themselves or allow new things to happen / people to do something, from what I've gathered. I'd comment on moderation, but we're not allowed to. Quality discussion, as you may have seen, is quite rare, and we are limited to 5000 recommendation or CoC meme threads. This place is the last vestige of Fuwanovel, with only enough strength to barely put its ugly, sacrilegious visage above the surface to take gasping, ragged breaths before it is finally put out of its misery and sinks to the abyss.
On the bright side, however, it is full of quality people from a variety of backgrounds. There is still a chance that among them stands a hero that will arrive and pull this sinking relic from the water and deliver it to salvation...
- Infernoplex and Happiness+
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18 minutes ago, Erogamer said:
Well, this is a moderated forum that has the right to ban any content or discussions they wish to. They also includes silencing and banning users. That is a right they also have. Facebook is doing the same to some of it's users for a different opinion. While I do not agree with it, they have that right as a private company. There are many sites and forums out there that ban political and religious discussions because of all the trolling and hate speech which gets out of hand. I think it is a good idea on a forum like this that has nothing to do with politics or religion.
I suppose that's true. I just don't think "criticising the United States" should equate to "getting out of hand". Nonetheless, I respect your opinion. Perhaps it is a good idea.
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3 hours ago, Toranth said:
You said "There is nothing wrong with machine translation". If there was nothing wrong with it, it would be accurate and representative of the source material.
That's fair. I should have said something to the effect of "There is no reason anyone should put you down for reading a machine translation if you choose to" or something of the sort? There are clearly problems with it in general, but I figured those were self-evident. I never had any intent to comment on the quality of MTL itself, and I can definitely see how my phrasing did, so I apologise.
3 hours ago, Toranth said:are encouraging other people to use machine translation, which produces crap translations. To quote: "There's also nothing wrong with that [encouraging other people to use machine translation]"
. That's encouraging other people to get a crappy, mixed-up view of the games - which is exactly the thing that many of us who like visual novels would prefer to avoid.I said there's nothing with helping other people to MTL, quoting from Kiri's post, not encouraging them to do so. There is indeed a distinction. If someone choose on their own that they want to read a MTL of something, a guide is all well and good. If they wrote up a blog post called "Why MTL is great and why you should use it", I'm sure we'd hold the same thoughts on it. And so you still think that I'll get a crappy mixed up view of Relaxation Yuka En ~Hitozuma Therapist ni Yoru Sentai~ (NSFW)? MTL is perfect to use for something where the actual written content is not the primary appeal, which is the majority of untranslated VNs (atleast according to VNDB). And why would you prefer to avoid someone doing something that they ultimately enjoy? It doesn't harm anyone as long as it is is not disseminated, as I stated, and there is no overbearing need to discuss visual novels.
3 hours ago, Toranth said:You seem to be confused over what your own views are. Perhaps you should try to state your opinion clearly, in simple statements bereft of insults or other ad hominems.
I would be very amused to hear you state where I insulted you. I don't believe I did. Please calm down.
3 hours ago, Kiriririri said:I'm sorry but Zander has dissociative identity disorder
That may be true, but it has no bearing on this case.
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10 hours ago, Toranth said:
There is a great deal wrong with machine translation, starting with the translation. You may end up with a rough understanding of what you are 'reading', but little to no understanding of detail, subtext, or (in many cases) context. You might as well ask for someone on the forum to give you a one page summary of the visual novel; it'll be more accurate, and better written as well.
Learning Japanese is time consuming, but not difficult. I suggest you try it. But if you don't want to take the time to learn the language, that's fine. But please do not pretend that random words strung together by a machine trained on 2ch posts is representative of the actual source material.
Nowhere did I say or imply that MTL is accurate or representative of the actual source material; please do not put words in my mouth or make assumptions. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that it isn't. My point was simply that if somebody wants to read it, and is happy with the result, then it's perfectly fine. Do you intend to bash me if I want to read a machine translation of Relaxation Yuka En ~Hitozuma Therapist ni Yoru Sentai~ (NSFW) because I can't fully immerse myself in the accurate source material or understand the deep, philosophical subtext and undertones?
I personally don't have any intention of learning Japanese, as I do not have an interest in it or the culture of Japan or Japanese products, etc; but neither do I read machine translations, for reference.
10 hours ago, Toranth said:Half humor, but "Friends don't let friends read Machine Translations". Machine translated products are universally crap. Many of us who like visual novels would prefer that crap not be held out as representative of the genre. Not to mention, the only thing that is more of a waste of time than trying to discuss a visual novel with someone that read a machine translation is trying to discuss it with someone who hasn't read it at all.
His comment it isn't "Japanese fetishism" or "elitism" or any other insult you can hurl. It's a sense of humor, combined with the basic understanding that what you are doing is not going to produce the best results, or even good ones. If all you want is crap, that's up to you. But don't go around making false claims like "there is nothing wrong with machine translations", and trying to spread that crap to others.
Yes, machine translated products are universally crap. I completely agree with you, and I would not want them to held as representative of the genre either. Which is why I specifically said...
10 hours ago, Zander said:As long as nobody attempts to disseminate their MTL or pass it off as a translation project
You seem to be misinterpreting my statements, or otherwise inventing positions I do not hold. There is no way for a MTL to be held as representative of the genre, as you were insisting I supported, if it is purely for personal use and is not disseminated nor used it as a "translation project". I specifically said that MTLs should not be spread to others, and you proceed to lambaste me for encouraging MTL "crap" to be spread and making false claims that it is quality. ???
With all that aside, localisation companies often produce crap and it ends up as representative of the genre regardless. I wouldn't be surprised if an edited MTL ended up better than the professional result of Hoshimeme.
9 hours ago, tymmur said:Here is the thing. Setting up MT is not instant. There are multiple options and then you have to learn how to read the result, which in itself is a learning process. To get good quality (and here I use good in very relative terms), the word on the net is to use Atlas. You then have to make one dictionary for each VN. You add the names as names, apply gender and stuff like that. You are also supposed to add words often used in VNs, but not present in Atlas by default (mainly H scene words). Next you need to configure some line changing stuff to make the lines more readable for Atlas.
By the time you reached what is supposedly claimed to be acceptable MT level, if you had spent the same amount of time on ITH+TA+jparser and studied Japanese grammar, you would likely have ended up with the ability to read Japanese on a level where you have a decent chance of beating MT on quality and unlike MT, you have a chance to improve by just reading more.
If you claim you don't have the time to study Japanese to even reach this level, then apparently you don't have the time to set up MT or even read VNs either.
I have great respect for you, Tymmur, so I will concede to you here as I am sure you are correct. I apologise for my hastiness.
I don't personally claim I don't have the time to study Japanese. I do, as do most people; I just have no desire to do so.
- Mr Poltroon and phantomJS
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27 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:
1st please stop using the word Jap
What's wrong with that? It's merely an abbreviation, like how I call my pals from Germany Germs.
27 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:2nd please stop using MTL
There's nothing wrong with MTL. Learning Japanese is a time-consuming, arduous task with minuscule payoff and little to no professional or vocational benefits. Not everybody wants to invest so great a portion of their life into learning a language solely for the consumption of visual novels.
28 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:3rd please stop helping people to MTL
There's also nothing wrong with that. As long as nobody attempts to disseminate their MTL or pass it off as a translation project, there is no issue whatsoever. Please take your Japanese fetishism and elitism elsewhere, Kiriririri.
- Mr Poltroon, Infernoplex, Kenshin_sama and 4 others
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Am I permitted to list the work in my graphic design portfolio after completion? I'm trying to expand my client base, so I need some new shit in it.
- Plk_Lesiak and Mr Poltroon
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Primitive Link (pale chestnut), nice and pretty sky, fully grown anime gurl in the background instead of a kid, dramatic posing, and top-tier legibility
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35 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:
I doubt I'm in the majority here, but I will literally never touch this game as long as it's only available on Steam. I have people I know in real life on my friends list, and there's no way I'll publically buy a tentacle rape game, censored or not, on a platform where they can see that I own it.
I understand your perspective, but at the same time, if your friends don't accept you and your tentacle rape fetish, are they really your friends in the first place?
- BookwormOtaku, Mr Poltroon, +StrikeR+ and 3 others
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secretly just as hyped as Maggie to see drawing of my favourite character
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enjoy Mitch!!
on closer examination, I also have keys for Ame no Marginal -Rain Marginal-, fault - milestone two side:above, and Highway Blossoms. they are available too!
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I got these two VNs as part of a bundle a while ago but I don't have any interest in either of them, so I thought I'd give them away rather than let it go to waste. First person to ask I guess, but don't ask for both please :0
mods if this isnt allowed dont ban me pls
edit: I'm out of gifts for today but Lesiak and Sayaka have some more. Scroll down!
- Weiterfechten, Plk_Lesiak, phantomJS and 1 other
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Not my thing personally, but best of luck Archangel! I hope you succeed and spread the sweet closure of sisters being ravaged to non-Japanese speakers everywhere.
Birthday thread
in Members' Lounge
Posted
Right you are. Happy birthday! Here is your cake, I made it myself