[Fat acceptance and the lack of fat characters on VNs]

Hmm.. i think i'm beginning to understand you a little bit better @anoyoruniyakusokushita. And because i can understand your view a tad better, i can properly tailor my response this time.

Terribly sorry for the comparison, but how do you feel when you look at something... unappealing? There's that internal cringe, and the sub-conscious attempt to look away. That is the same as looking at the obese.

Like i said, The Obese are veritably beautiful internally. But externally they don't appeal to others. It is a human perception that is inborn. it is not acquired. That is why young kids look at fat people and point at them, sometimes saying nasty things. Their parents didn't consciously raise them to insult fat people. Neither did they miss out on the fat in cartoons like chowder. 

But on viewing a fat person, their mind instantly recognizes, that this is not how a human is supposed to be. As such, their embarrassing comments or reactions.

Society only plays a part as they grow up and become more accustomed to social relations. that's when the teasing begins among peers. That is when society is the culprit. 

Unfortunately, like you said, the perception of beauty is subjective. However, according to Pluto (or was it Aristotle?) beauty itself is objective in the world of forms while our subjective perception defines that beauty.

So given the psychology i have stated above, obese is not beautiful externally. And as such, a vast majority would agree with me. It is as unfortunate as humanity's innate warring nature. these are things that cannot be changed at the core without a catalyst or miracle.

Also i think it's be advisable to stop comparing the woes of the obese to the woes of the black. The two are NOT the same please. As someone who is black and has been obese i can say that with certainty. Please try to avoid using such a comparison since the margin is rather wide, and maybe utilize a comparison which is much more... compact.

[Fat acceptance and the lack of fat characters on VNs]

5 hours ago, *anoyoruniyakusokushita said:

What??? Sorry, but that's not what objective means.

"not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased"

Just because most people think it is a certain way doesn't make it a fact, nor does it prevent that thinking from being influenced by personal feelings and prejudice. Rather, the whole notion of fat = ugly is a societal bias.

An opinion is never a fact. That's why it's called opinion. A fact is something irrefutable.

I agree with you here and I'm not seeking privileges for fat people. If they were really treated like everyone else, they would get as much media coverage as thin people get. So, no, fat people are not being treated like everyone else. If you think so, it's probably because you aren't one and doesn't know how it feels to be one.

Yeah, there was also a time when white skin was the thing so all we had to do was wait for black skin to become a thing, right?

This is not how things work. We can't let society do whatever it wants, because if we did that, things would be much worse. I'm not gonna wait for a certain group to be in the spotlight because that's not what I want; I want equality, not privileges.

???

Thinking like that is exactly why most people get up and rebel about various things. You don't understand the deeper mechanisms that go into running the world. What i said may not be 100% lexical, but it is 100% Philosophical and Factual. 

If you think an "opinion" can never become fact then you have another thing coming friend. Opinions run this world. They run demand and supply, basically markets and social preferences. They control morality. They control politics. They control everyone.

Consider Opinions as not some dictionary word, but as a facet to human existence. 

Can you refute that killing is bad? Yes of course, but not without it's social repercussions. A fact, lexically, is something that is totally accepted by society. As such, if the majority of society take their opinion and force it upon the minority, it becomes fact. That my friend, is how the world works. If you feel you still don't understand this fact, i'm currently shoving my opinion on you as a minority since mine generally aligns with the majority.

Do you also understand the term "Privilege"? A Privilege is something that is earned  by great feats and hard work. It's not given out because we feel pity. Like i said, society decides who gets the privileges and at what time, so you're pointlessly advocating when it's time is not here. Until fat people become a thing, this is as productive as ignoring climate change or since you want media attention, Actually telling a good story and having characters not be evaluated on how they look but what they are there for. 

This is exactly how things work my friend, you just don't know it. I've spent years working in politics, so i know very well how popular demand and societies preference works. So that is why i can calmly tell you that you're not going to move society by crying out like this. 

Do not presume i do not know the pain of fat people, @anoyoruniyakusokushita. I was fat from grade school to junior high. I suffered ridicule and various verbal abuse at that time because i was fat, short and most of all ugly. 

I was one of those kids you'd describe as "puberty hit them like a train". In senior high i lost all my weight. I was still the same human being, no surgeries, no cosmetics, yet i had become hot  and attractive (and still am).

All the things i dreamed about when i was fat (mostly nice girls) came after me. I was able to partake in sports without stopping to breathe a tankard of air. I didn't get sick as often. i could sleep without feeling like i was choking myself. This, This is the benefit of losing weight. There is no benefit in gaining it. Do not praise the unwell just because you want to feel good about it. 

In the Final Fantasy XV OVA, the yellow haired guy (forgot his name) was fat as a kid. Then inspired by the protag of the anime/game, he lost weight. To someone who has been obese before, that montage were he was working to better himself was nothing short of inspirational. That my friend is what you should be advocating for, not showing them as they are and saying "well it's fine right? they're beautiful inside even if they might be dying."

Also, i find it strange that you did not challenge my statement regarding developers. At least that much you do understand. As a developer and even as a formerly obese person, never did it cross my mind to add a fat character to Episicava, even as a cameo.

Why the hell would i want to encourage people to suffer physically like i did? That would be madness on my part, i'm afraid. That is why i said fat people should not be insulted or bullied because i know the pain of that. But they should not be praised because i also know the danger in that.

 

TL;DR:

The obese are beautiful. they definitely are since i was. But they are beautiful on the inside, not the outside. Harsh, but it's a fact. Very few people want to look at someone with enough rolls to hide items. Even fewer want to see them in sexual media like eroge. But you might be in luck though. Apparently "BBW" or obese people get quite a bit of attention in porn.

[Fat acceptance and the lack of fat characters on VNs]

Body;

Hmmm. So you're saying a producer should run the risk of being shat on by consumers or making losses because you want him to push a minor agenda? 

Now, everyone possesses an individual opinion about something. That is "Subjective". When majority of the individuals possess a similar opinion, it becomes "Objective". It becomes fact. 

Average individual: Killing is bad.

Murderer: Killing is good/necessary. 

Two opinions. Yet one has transcended to become fact due to an overwhelming majority. This is non debatable. Why? Because what i'm saying is FACT.

Unfortunately those who share your opinion are a vast minority. Fat people are humans, they deserve human rights. They deserve the same benefits every human gets not including media coverage. That is a privilege that is determined by society.

"Bald head and thick beards."

"6'0 foot tall"

"Slim waist big ass"

"Plot/Tits"

These are various "trends" or preferences of society of the now. So in various media, they get most of the attention. Those are the demands of society because they are Visually appealing.

Conclusion;

Being fat is optional. Those who are fat should not suffer socially because of it. They deserve to be treated like everyone else.

On the same vein, those who are fat should be treated like everybody else. They should not be given any unnecessary praise or recognition separate from what society wants.

They made their choice. They chose to eat. Whether it benefits the individual or not is not something that should capture attention. They deserve neither positive nor negative appraisals. Like Snailmusk said in the previous post, there are much, much bigger problems than positively approving the obese.

TL;DR:

Society decides what it wants at the end of the day. If it ain't the obese, you gotta wait till their time comes. There/this was/is a time were anorexia (or extremely slim to be more precise) was/is a thing. There was a time where chubby/meaty was a thing. Given the fickle nature of humanity, obesity will become a thing. Push it's agenda then, not now.
 

P.S read this passively/superficially. Do not read tones or meanings into it, or it will ruin the simplicity of my message. While i was typing i possessed nothing but a poker face and a calm demeanor. Please do not visualize anything else while reading. Thank you.

[Chuunige protagonists: Heroes, anti-heroes, and monsters]

What are the most effective types of conflicts for Chuunige?

[In-Depth Review: Seinarukana + Info Hub]

Quote

Route branches aren't sufficiently different to justify a second playthrough

Combat becomes monotonous after a while, especially on subsequent playthroughs

I totally agree with this. during my first play through the story really appealed to me as every chapter was well developed  and the next brought a new story element that had me on the hinges.

I could play two chapters in one sitting, fully enjoying the depth of the battle system as compared to Eien no Aselia as well as the facts mentioned supra.

But after that everything changed. I play a little bit of a single mission and i get bored halfway. this was new to me as in Eien no Aselia i only started feeling boredom after my 7th playthrough. before that i could play normally. But Seinarukana doesn't have that ability to put me on the edge of my seat while battling. this could be because of the difference in character deaths.

Still observing the facts Seinarukana has more graphical beauty than it's predecessor and the story was more Enthralling. But that was only for the first playthrough.