Daydreamer97

はいはい to add credibility to this essay, let me, a very loud specimen (gender neutral) of the often neglected otomefolk tribe, affirm this definition is quite accurate. We're just romancedudes  (gender neutral) that plays under slight different set of rules, but the pursuit of a moenirvana is all the same.

This and TyranoBuilder. I don't like it and its save system. Visual Novel Maker and TyranoBuilder games don't feel nearly as nice to play as Ren'Py games for some reason. Ren'Py requires some coding but the games built on it are usually more user-friendly and polished.
 
I think we're a little bit used to being ignored by the general VN fandom lol. The otome and bl community have some overlap, but not that much and do tend to be more insular. I do wish more people would pay attention though, especially since both communities have thriving indie scenes that are very far from the common misconception of what the EVN scene looks like.

I think otome and BL fangirls deserve their own place on the archetype list. :>
The one thing tying all the categories outside of the storycuck and the autist is convenience. People are willing to accept obviously "false" categorisation because they reflect the kinds of games that tie the community together. Ejecting only things that stretch the definitions of the genre beyond that point of utility. Just like Erogamescape lists all those obviously non-ero games, because they appeal to similar audiences and use similar storytelling conventions as eroge.
Because, in practice, we use VN both as a genre description, with a very precise set of storytelling conventions and mechanics (basically the Key/Type-Moon formula), and as an umbrella term. What Palas was trying to do was to justify the use of the umbrella term by coming up with a legitimate definition for it. Something that can't really be done in a strict manner, but can work to inform the boundaries the community sets for itself. I think I even used the "pure story or gameplay serving the story" idea in an academic paper I wrote... But that was only justifiable because I was focusing on the community and fan translations, and not trying to push a legitimate genre definition.
So, Zaka, I feel sorry for you and every other genre-definition-pedant, but I think that as long as we don't separate the narrow genre definition from the umbrella term, your position is utterly hopeless and you're meant to suffer for all eternity from AAs and Danganronpas of this world being miscategorized.

Whaaaat? Nonsense.
 

Mangagamer announcements:
 

Mangagamer announcements:
 

Mangagamer announcements:
 

Oh wow wasn't expecting DLC for Steam Prison. I'm not particularly interested in a route for this character, but hey bonus content for any VN is an idea that I whole hearted support (And I'll get it anyway for the side stories).
Also we can never have enough liar-soft, their games are great.

I'm actually surprised that they announced two things I'm interested in. I haven't bought Steam Prison yet, but I will once the expansion's out. Also, liar-soft titles are probably the plot-heavy VNs I'm interested in the most so I'm definitely getting Jeanne at the Clock Tower once it releases.

Mangagamer announcements:
 

I played KonoSora and it's the first (only?) moege I played. The best part of the game for me was the common route and even though I used the retranslation patch, I skipped every H-scene because honestly, it felt like it ruined how I perceived the characters. I played Kotori's route first, which was good, then Asa and Yoru, then Amane. After playing Asa and Yoru, both routes left a sour taste in my mouth so I skipped Ageha after reading that a lot of it revolves around sex and stupid drama. I'd rather just leave her and Aoi as best friends. Amane's route was the best one I think because it explains a lot about the Soaring Club, their motivations, and their teacher's motivations. Also, I feel like Aoi had the best chemistry with Kotori and Amane. I did enjoy the friendship dynamics and the high points where they were flying in the glider. I also decided to watch Amane's route in the fandisc on Youtube just to see Isuka and Tatsuya get together.
A small rant, but I disliked how the scene replay was exclusively all sex scenes. I wish there was some romantic fluff in there somewhere. 
Overall, I felt like the game was okay. As I said, it was the first moege I played and while the art looks good, I felt like the character designs were a little lackluster. Although, this might be because I'm used to otome games and more plot-heavy games with elaborate character designs. I did enjoy parts of the game, but I think I'd stick to otome games and plot-oriented VNs. 

I played KonoSora and it's the first (only?) moege I played. The best part of the game for me was the common route and even though I used the retranslation patch, I skipped every H-scene because honestly, it felt like it ruined how I perceived the characters. I played Kotori's route first, which was good, then Asa and Yoru, then Amane. After playing Asa and Yoru, both routes left a sour taste in my mouth so I skipped Ageha after reading that a lot of it revolves around sex and stupid drama. I'd rather just leave her and Aoi as best friends. Amane's route was the best one I think because it explains a lot about the Soaring Club, their motivations, and their teacher's motivations. Also, I feel like Aoi had the best chemistry with Kotori and Amane. I did enjoy the friendship dynamics and the high points where they were flying in the glider. I also decided to watch Amane's route in the fandisc on Youtube just to see Isuka and Tatsuya get together.
A small rant, but I disliked how the scene replay was exclusively all sex scenes. I wish there was some romantic fluff in there somewhere. 
Overall, I felt like the game was okay. As I said, it was the first moege I played and while the art looks good, I felt like the character designs were a little lackluster. Although, this might be because I'm used to otome games and more plot-heavy games with elaborate character designs. I did enjoy parts of the game, but I think I'd stick to otome games and plot-oriented VNs. 

I'm not really one for episodic releases but a bunch have been cropping out on itch.io lately and I thought why not? There are free one, the art looks nice, there's a lot of CGs per episode, and it looks like most have a consistent release schedule. With that in mind, I picked up Andromeda Six. Oh boy, what a great start. It only has three episodes out so far but what they have is really intriguing. Like most recent episodic releases, it has pronoun selection (meaning the MC doesn't show up in CGs), lots of love interests, both male and female (5 male, 2 female), and race selection (because space opera?).
Episodes are fairly short but there are a lot of options, with flirt options clearly labeled which would make you closer to your chosen love interest. This makes it replayable for me in between waiting for episodes. So far, I'd describe the story as a mix of Firefly and Anastasia. Anastasia was one of my favorite animated films so I was pretty excited to see the Anastasia in Space storyline. You play as an amnesiac who wakes up in a ship full of mercenaries but you regain your memories in like, Episode 3. The story is pretty well-written so far and there's also pretty strong characterization as you get to know the characters and their backgrounds. Really, my only complaint is the episodic release makes waiting so hard. I'd definitely pay money for this once it's complete- plus whatever special DLC episodes they may have.

I saw your recommendations last time and I greatly appreciate them. However, this particular one seemed to have a style such that I decided to leave it be.
That said, given what you are describing now I simply cannot ignore it, I see. Not a fan of dark stuff, generally, but I'll see what I think of it.

I've been playing more of Ebon Light and seeing such a high-quality free/PWYW game is really a delight. The main story is the same throughout your playthrough but the branching is really unique and provides a lot of replay value. For one thing, your MC has stats which help define or shape her personality and there's a variety of choices you can make to increase/decrease these stats which impact the storyline. The painterly style is beautiful and provides a unique aesthetic for this dark fantasy game which also has a lot of interesting lore accessible from an in-game glossary. There's also MC customization available so you can change the MC's hair style/color, eye color, skin tone, and even clothes later on. 
However, what I love the most about this is that your personality doesn't impact whether your love interest stays with you or not. I mean, you can play a sweet, kind main character or a ruthless, cunning one and still get a happy ending. The story involves a young woman who drinks something she shouldn't have (which kinda gives her abilities) and gets taken to an island full of elves with a militaristic society. From there, she can choose if she just wants to survive or seek power- although, power may be the key to her survival. It's quite choice-heavy so again, a lot of branches. Also there are emo elf LIs. Each playthrough is fairly short- maybe four hours, but the branching makes it so that things don't get stale. 
In any case, I have been following the development of this game for years and the end product is everything I wanted and then some. It has  garnered quite a few fans in the otome game community and I really want to share it with everyone. Seriously, please check this game out. You don't really even have to romance anyone to get a happy ending. It's a good plot-focused VN with romance and emo elves I happen to love. Ebon Light is a very unique game and one of the best VNs I've played. And did I mention it's free/PWYW?

I've been reading another indie otome called Dark Nights. It's like Cinderella Phenomenon in the sense that it's a high-quality medium-length indie vn which probably should have cost money but is free. It's also something I've been looking forward to for years because the art is really pretty and Pinlin, the solo dev who worked on it is seriously talented and her art is absolutely gorgeous. So far, I'm only on my first route but it's been doing a good job at setting this horror tone and a multi-route mystery.
I also played another free-but-should-have-been-commercial indie I've been looking forward to- Ebon Light. There are love interests but it's not a traditional otome (although I do count it as one) because the romance is more of a side thing than the main thing. It's more plot-focused and is a little more game-y with stats. It also has beautiful western-style art and a dark fantasy aesthetic which really kept me hooked. You get to shape the MC's personality in this one so there's a lot of branches and ways to get a good ending.

I've been reading another indie otome called Dark Nights. It's like Cinderella Phenomenon in the sense that it's a high-quality medium-length indie vn which probably should have cost money but is free. It's also something I've been looking forward to for years because the art is really pretty and Pinlin, the solo dev who worked on it is seriously talented and her art is absolutely gorgeous. So far, I'm only on my first route but it's been doing a good job at setting this horror tone and a multi-route mystery.
I also played another free-but-should-have-been-commercial indie I've been looking forward to- Ebon Light. There are love interests but it's not a traditional otome (although I do count it as one) because the romance is more of a side thing than the main thing. It's more plot-focused and is a little more game-y with stats. It also has beautiful western-style art and a dark fantasy aesthetic which really kept me hooked. You get to shape the MC's personality in this one so there's a lot of branches and ways to get a good ending.

Ok, so I think I can throw in a few observations connected to the EVN scene specifically: some lewd games gained pretty wide popularity with the Western otakus and that's pretty much the closest thing to VNs going "mainstream" so far – people fapping on mass or meme'ing to Nekopara and Winged Cloud's Sakura games. DDLC became a massive meme and brought many people into VNs, but generally, the aggressive gatekeeping drove many of them off and made them organize into a separate community that doesn't really know/understand much about VNs. Most VNs, as a see it, do not have the appeal to bring mainstream crowds, with the prevalence of porn and questionable themes pushing them even harder in this shady, obscure corner.
In the West, outside of the particularly dedicated otakus, VNs thrive in basically two places: among women that enjoy romance stories/otome and within the queer crowd. For example, while in Japan yuri is very much created for the male audience, in the West you'll see lesbians/bisexual women being both devs and avid consumers of VNs, simply because it's one of the main forms of media touching on their experience and prefered romantic setups. On the BL side, you'll see more "bara" VNs created by openly gay developers and geared towards male readers. As a medium that is relatively easy to make and story-oriented, VNs in the West became a tool for minority groups to express themselves and create their own brands of entertainment, which is interestingly detached from what they (usually) represent in Japan. This approach, of course, is by default niche, aiming for very specific audiences.
I'm kind of stuck thinking that without the specific trajectory and cultural context that made VNs important in Japan trying to push them into mainstream is kind of hopeless. The idea of porn with story has its appeal, but it's not something the Western audience wants in mass (one could argue that it's because they don't know they want it/aren't familiar with how VNs do stuff, but I'm not sure). The storytelling formula of VNs is also not automatically attractive – just observe the bewilderment of people that stumble upon VNs randomly on Steam. Literary buffs usually scoff at the anime aesthetic and cliches inherent with the otaku media. While VNs are growing in the West and people are more aware of their existence, but I just don't see them expanding out of those few, very specific niches they're confined to now.

To be honest, I think that when it comes to VNs being mainstream, mobile otome games have the better chance of pushing them to the mainstream than traditional PC or console games. For one thing, they're everywhere and their advertising is very on point. A lot are free, some are pay-per-route and it targets its intended audience very efficiently with pretty art, pretty boys, and romance. It's also often the entry point for a lot of players to the better VNs out there. Personally, I got into VNs with mobile otome, and a lot of people in the otome community can say the same. Also, otome players don't necessarily read just otome forever. Some of them, like me, also get drawn into more plot-based VNs like Fata Morgana, When They Cry, or liar-soft's steampunk games.
Also, there are a lot of indie otome/bl/moege devs who are doing good work and I've noticed that the number of them are growing and getting better. Like, some devs I've followed for years and you can really see their growth when it comes to art style and writing quality.

To be honest, I think that when it comes to VNs being mainstream, mobile otome games have the better chance of pushing them to the mainstream than traditional PC or console games. For one thing, they're everywhere and their advertising is very on point. A lot are free, some are pay-per-route and it targets its intended audience very efficiently with pretty art, pretty boys, and romance. It's also often the entry point for a lot of players to the better VNs out there. Personally, I got into VNs with mobile otome, and a lot of people in the otome community can say the same. Also, otome players don't necessarily read just otome forever. Some of them, like me, also get drawn into more plot-based VNs like Fata Morgana, When They Cry, or liar-soft's steampunk games.
Also, there are a lot of indie otome/bl/moege devs who are doing good work and I've noticed that the number of them are growing and getting better. Like, some devs I've followed for years and you can really see their growth when it comes to art style and writing quality.

To be honest, I think that when it comes to VNs being mainstream, mobile otome games have the better chance of pushing them to the mainstream than traditional PC or console games. For one thing, they're everywhere and their advertising is very on point. A lot are free, some are pay-per-route and it targets its intended audience very efficiently with pretty art, pretty boys, and romance. It's also often the entry point for a lot of players to the better VNs out there. Personally, I got into VNs with mobile otome, and a lot of people in the otome community can say the same. Also, otome players don't necessarily read just otome forever. Some of them, like me, also get drawn into more plot-based VNs like Fata Morgana, When They Cry, or liar-soft's steampunk games.
Also, there are a lot of indie otome/bl/moege devs who are doing good work and I've noticed that the number of them are growing and getting better. Like, some devs I've followed for years and you can really see their growth when it comes to art style and writing quality.

To be honest, I think that when it comes to VNs being mainstream, mobile otome games have the better chance of pushing them to the mainstream than traditional PC or console games. For one thing, they're everywhere and their advertising is very on point. A lot are free, some are pay-per-route and it targets its intended audience very efficiently with pretty art, pretty boys, and romance. It's also often the entry point for a lot of players to the better VNs out there. Personally, I got into VNs with mobile otome, and a lot of people in the otome community can say the same. Also, otome players don't necessarily read just otome forever. Some of them, like me, also get drawn into more plot-based VNs like Fata Morgana, When They Cry, or liar-soft's steampunk games.
Also, there are a lot of indie otome/bl/moege devs who are doing good work and I've noticed that the number of them are growing and getting better. Like, some devs I've followed for years and you can really see their growth when it comes to art style and writing quality.

I've been playing an indie otome EVN called Changeling and it's really really good. The art wouldn't be for everyone but the story and characters really makes up for it because it does have one of the best otome stories I've read. Not very romantic (but appropriate for their situation) although heavy on plot and characterization. It's a high school otome I actually like because of the dark urban fantasy story and how it also makes fun of common paranormal tropes. It's also probably the longest indie otome game I know of. Plus, I'm really looking forward to the dev's next game because it looks like it's going to be longer (9 routes!) and the art style and QoL looks to be dramatically improved.

Going to re-read The House in Fata Morgana after a long time of not playing VNs because dumb translation controversy just reminded me that this is my favorite VN of all time. Also, the chapter select after you finish the game is a godsend because sometimes, I just want to pick and choose which chapters to re-read.

I took issue with lolicon specifically because of how accepted it is among VN fans.
And yes, unfortunately, BL games tend to be rather rapey. :/ I'm not a fan of that kind of content either. I wouldn't recommend it without a content warning, though honestly, I probably wouldn't enjoy something with rape very much anyway. I also don't think it should be banned.
I specifically said I wasn't advocating for a lolicon ban. That's outside the scope of this topic, and my own feelings on the matter are complex. The OP asked what we, as fans, can do to lure people into the medium...and that'd be a helluva lot easier if we didn't have so many people advocating for VNs with child sex in them.