[Visual Novel Kinks, Tropes, Cliches, Stereotypes, and Common Logic Flaws you are tired of seeing]

Well, pretty much all my pet peeves have already been stated in this thread in one way or another:

• Highschool Settings
• Various Harem/Moege tropes where the protaganist is unfairly called or treated as a pervert
• Melodrama for the sake of melodrama
• When a character's "character" doesn't grow outside of their archtype
• Semen fountains (I'm not talking about the amount portrayed as much as the amount of times a MC can pop off in one session)
• Formulatic H-scenes

There are plenty of other stuff but those are the big ones for me.

Edit: That reminds me, especially for the 2nd bullet point, this happens ALOT in the particular route in what i'm reading now. Like honestly, I don't see the point in being overly embarrassed and shouting "KYAAAAAAAAAA" with some subsequent "Hentai, ecchi, etc", and maybe a slap towards the protaganist just because you "accidently" change in front of him, and he see's you naked (Mind you, this is not too long after a pretty thorough h-scene where he basically does the full course on her). I mean the moe of the "Shyness" is alright the first time, but when its repeated so often, it kind of looses its luster for me.

[A VN with an Onee- chan character.]

Da Capo II has both an Imouto and Onee-chan route. (Honestly the 2nd game was much better than the first game, heroine wise, but if you haven't played any in the Da Capo Franchise, it might be worth playing the first game beforehand.

Noble ☆ Works' Akari route is basically your typical "Onee-chan" route. It has a pretty interesting spin on it, i guess.

I'll second the recommendations for Ayakashibito, I think that its a great VN overall as well as somewhat meeting your criteria.

[What are you playing?]

I started I/O a few days ago, and i must say I'm impressed. I'd say i'm probably just a little over halfway through it though. If there is one thing i have to say about this particular VN is that it's definitely unique in presentation.

[can't play other routes]

31 minutes ago, Decay said:

I never consciously think "I don't want this to end," I always come up with some other reason for stopping. But I've heard a number of people are like this and the common psychological explanation given is a subconscious aversion to endings, with people like me afraid of being "finished" with something and never having a reason to go back. I do finish most VNs I start, however. Normal video games, on the other hand... I can't remember the last one I've beaten. I literally can't. I've started preferring games that don't have an end, maybe because of this. Even my beloved MGS5... Maybe some day...

Going back closer to the original topic, I've never stopped a VN because I just liked a heroine too much. I HAVE stopped reading a VN because I hated the other heroines, though. Like Canvas 2. 

The whole stalling on things you don't want to conclude thing is something i get really bad with Anime, and sometimes games. I oddly don't have it nearly as bad with visual novels... But yeah, I have SO many anime half watched and every once in a while i try to make an effort to finish them, even if i have to rewatch a few episodes to get my memory refreshed on where i'm at, but it seems for every 1 show i manage to finish, there are 2-3 that i will stall on. I tend to have a much easier time finishing shows that i force myself to watch weekly, or are generic (although painfully generic stuff i'll end up dropping)

VN wise, I tend to finish what i start for better or worse. Some times i'll finish a route and go "Wow, i really enjoyed that" and then have the rest of them sour my experience. I think the only VN i've actually dropped was like Ikikoi. There was only 1 heroine i remotely enjoyed, and the rest were, lets just say... not to my taste. (But yeah Canvas 2 wasn't the best, but i still found it overall... tolerable)

[Salutations!]

10 hours ago, TastefulSardine said:

I'm pretty awkward like everywhere and bad at organizing my thoughts so everything I say will probably be a jumbled mess. 

Haha, no worries... I get like that too on occasion, myself.

Anyway, welcome to the Forums! (Although I'm pretty new myself)

[Another Long time Lurker.]

7 hours ago, littleshogun said:

Since I'd already welcomed you, guess I'll better skip to the VN Recommendation here. I see that you read most of recommended VN from some thread here, so I'll add I/O if you feel that you still want to read Tanaka Romeo (He was in Rewrite, Yume Miru Kusuri, Cross Channel, and he was planner in I/O) work. Also Remember11 if you want to read more Infinity series, but beware if you didn't like open ending though (Actually more like no ending, but I think the story should be still good).

As for my experience as lurker, I think I'd already knew about Fuwanovel since the name was still Visual Novel Aer ie back at 2012 (I'd also browse erogames forum, VNDB, and now dead VNTL back there), then sometimes I use torrent from Fuwanovel and find that the forum was quite active back in 2014. Then I just register here at whim back around the end of 2014 just want to post tips at Soukoku no Arterial thread although I'm still not active too much compared of now back in 2015. Then I decided to introduce myself as 41st post, and I think at this moment I'm far more active here. Well, just want to share my experience here.

Lastly, well have fun here and hope you enjoy your stay here.

I wasn't actually aware that Tanaka did I/O, so i guess i'll put that on a higher priority. Remember11 was something i was planning on getting around to eventually. I basically heard that it didn't have much of an ending elsewhere and that might have scared me away from it. I don't mind Open endings as long as they're done in a satisfying way.

I'd say my joining was a bit of a whim as well. I've never really been a very social person, so I have a tendancy to lurk and read posts but not contribute unless i feel like i can bring something unique to the discussion (Although, sometimes i'll just post for the hell of it). I don't really have alot of people in my social circles that actually play VNs, or at the very least, play them much anymore. Other than the few people on Skype i talk to with the interest, and MAL, that's about it. But yeah, its interesting to hear others' experience so thank you for sharing.

 

@Dergonu         : Thanks!

@Nimbus           : Thank you, and will do.

@VirginSmasher  : Ever17 was pretty great ;3, but yeah i'll try to stick around, thank you.

[Another Long time Lurker.]

@Flutterz

Thank you, and i hope to as well. Glad you approve of my taste, haha.

Nice moe ;3.

@Eclipsed

Well, i wouldn't dare claim that i'm that well informed. I wasn't very active browsing the forum side of things, except maybe checking up on a local project, VNTLS, Walkthroughs or maybe an opinion on a recently released Visual novel or such. Its just odd that during all that time i never really got around to making a forum account, but i've never been one to be exceedingly active on forums. This site has sure changed over the years, though. Its done a 180, thats for sure. But yeah, i don't think i actually know of any memes sadly.

@Arcadeotic

Thanks, although i'm not sure if you meant old-timer in the sense of me being 25, or the sense of me being vaguely around for a couple of years. Although, I certainly do feel old at times when comparing myself with average age of the anime community sometimes.

[Another Long time Lurker.]

@Forgetful Frank

Thank you! Yeah, I'm not a prolific forum poster by any means, but i'll probably be around more often now that i have a forum account.

@DarkZedge

Thank you for the welcome~. I hope to have a good time here, as well. Don't worry, i'll speak up if i need to know anything ;3.

@Fred the Barber

Just for you, i added it to my list. Well, its not like i-i'm ashamed of anything i've read or anything! Well, i have it public elsewhere so i might as well post it here too, haha. Feel free to send me recommendations.

 

Anyway... just something else to add, i'll often type in a fairly blunt manner so bear that in mind. I generally try to make an effort to fix that, but sometimes it slips through.

[Another Long time Lurker.]

Hello~

I've probably been aware of Fuwanovel since 2013, and for the last year or so, have exclusively used the site for walkthroughs, VNTL information, and perhaps reading a few of the blog posts (ever since vntls.org stopped updating once upon a time). I'm a fairly introverted (INTP-A, for those familiar with that type of thing) 25 year old. Being exposed to Visual Novels has been an interesting journey, i must say. In a gaming lul, i decided to pick up Katawa Shoujo on a whim sometime in late summer 2012, and i was blown away on how much such a thing could actually immerse me (I didn't sleep that first night, and managed to read most of the VN in one day). At the time, i had barely any knowledge of what a VN was, as most was heard second hand on various discussion boards, and the little i thought i knew was pretty unflattering (I assumed most VNs were Nukige-like, and had little story/character substance). That opened me up to trying out Fate/Stay Night, Steins;Gate, Ever17, Muv-Luv + Alternative, and a plethora of others that i grew to enjoy. Coincidently enough, between highschool and katawa shoujo, i hadn't really watched much anime, and going through Katawa shoujo actually rekindled my interest in that medium as well, haha.

I've probably read enough to where i'd have a hard time making a top 5, but If i had to choose a top 5 (in no particular order), they would be the following:

• Cross†Channel
• Ef - A fairy tale of the two.
• Ever17 -the Out of Infinity-
• Muv Luv + Alternative (Specifically Alternative)
• Steins;Gate

Some honorable mentions would be Rewrite, Majikoi, Grisaia, Fate/Stay Night, and Sharin no Kuni

 

But yeah, Making topics aren't my strong point, so hopefully this serves as some kind of bare-bones introduction. If there is anything anyone wants to know, feel free to ask and i'll try to answer it to the best of my ability.

[Why are visual novels becoming popular in the West?]

@Fred the Barber I didn't mean to imply that VN translations were by any means perfect, and you do make good points. I just feel like, as innaccurate as some VN translations can be, any (decent, non Machine Translated) VN translation is better than injecting memes into the script for the sake of western mainstream appeal.

 

But yeah, i didn't mean to derail the thread with that poorly worded comment.

(I should probably point out about that image, i find the top to be overly liberal, where the bottom is too rigid. I don't mind taking liberties with a translation if it reads better in english, just that there are limits to where you should go, imo)

[Why are visual novels becoming popular in the West?]

1 hour ago, littleshogun said:

@FontSize72LOL Maybe this is not introduction thread, but welcome to Fuwanovel and hope you enjoy your stay here. And as for your opinion, it's quite interesting one although I think as long as you could understand any of the story, it didn't matter if it's could bring us more translated VN, but I also acknowledge your point in regard of the people that want VN to stay niche. So, I think I'm in more favor to translation or in your word localization (Only slightly though I guess).

As for the video, guess it was interesting video, and I think the most interesting one would be that in regard of VN should be treated as the game, and he said that it was still in debate (Because of that, there were some amateur VN reviewer that give low score to VN because of no gameplay thing). I think that I agree that compared to several years ago, now VN was quite easily found on Steam nowadays (Although I just knew Steam recently though), which mean it was more accessible compared to the past. Oh, and about the speaker himself, I'd remember that I like to watch his LP to Moogy VN 'Best Eroge Ever'. Here's the video below, and I think it was quite funny LP.

I think that's all I could said in regard of this topic, and I'm sorry if I couldn't express my opinion well here.

@littleshogun First of all, Thank you! To be honest, I've been lurking Fuwanovel for quite some time, but never really thought to make a forum account until now lol.

I'm definitely not against VNs being popular, It would be pretty good if VNs got more credit than they do. When i used Localization, I was refering to non-VN Japanese games. VNs (generally) get much better treatment translation wise, and thankfully so considering what the medium is. I was just merely pointing out that as there are alot of great things about VNs, VNs also have a "Darker" side to them. As the medium gets more popularized, you'll be exposing more and more people to things that might not sit well with the "mainstream", and those opinions might eventually have ramifications towards the medium as a whole. I mean, pressure from the west actually took an eroge off the market in Japan before: RapeLay . I'm not sure of your opinion on Nukige, but they are just as much apart of VN culture as Light-hearted Moeges, and Plot based VNs. There are argubably "worse" Nukige available on the market today. There are people out there that sincerely believe that people cannot distinguish between fiction and reality and will try to censor or outright ban anything they're not comfortable with.

Anyway, good ol' Best Eroge Ever. Its a good chuckle, and don't worry. I'm not exactly sure I've expressed my opinion well, either. 

I guess a TL;DR would be this: I would like people to be exposed to the positive side of VNs, but at the same time, I'd rather the so-called "Darker" side of VNs stay niche, and untouched by heavy-handed PC culture.

 

39 minutes ago, Mugi said:

I still feel like it's a very niche market in the west, and will stay that way unless some of the better VN's (Grisaia, G-Senjou, Clannad) take the spotlight from things like the Sakura games, Nekopara, and Hatoful Boyfriend. A lot of people are just completely put off by them and think of VN's as joke games. That being said, I don't think they will ever not be niche in the west. 

I think alot of people have an aversion towards OELVNs because alot of them try to be distinctly "Japanese" without an extensive knowledge of what japanese actually is, so it becomes a third-hand regurgitation of the same tropes you see in other VNs/anime. There are some Parody OELVNs that are pretty funny, there are also VNs that try to be more distinctly western, and thats fine. Thats not to say there aren't any OELVNs that actually get it right from time to time and do a decent job of it, but that seems pretty rare to be honest.

~Disclaimer: I barely ever read OELVNs, probably the only few that i've actually read were Katawa Shoujo (Back in 2012), and one of the Sakura games. Incidently Katawa Shoujo is the reason i even got into the medium~

[Tokyo Babel Released!]

On 4/22/2016 at 7:13 AM, Decay said:

I would argue that user scores are NEVER a good indicator for quality.

I would both agree and disagree with this particular statement. The thing is, i feel like ratings are more of a measure of a titles "mainstream appeal" which is a good indicator of what is "Universally good", but not quite a good indicator of something that would be specifically "good" or relevant to your specific interests. The issue is VNs being niche as they are, don't always try for mainstream appeal and those cant really compete, ratings wise, with those that do. I do agree that Ratings shouldn't be the sole thing that decides whether or not you pick something up, and one should always look deeper. Thats about all i'm going to say on this topic, however.

 

Anyway, on the actual topic here:

I finished Tokyo Babel a couple of a days ago and i have to say that i've really enjoyed it. I didn't really want to get into a "review" or "rant" over it but there are a few things i figure i should bring up. I actually didn't mind the "casual" tone used in the narrative, or the English itself. I felt that it flowed pretty naturally, all things considered. Some of the slang did trigger me a little bit (not because the slang was used, but moreso, i just have an adversion to those particular word choices, "totes" being one of them). I felt the pacing, all around, in this VN was a bit off. It was rushed at times, and dragged a bit at others, although compared to Ayakashibito, i think they did a little better job here. I feel like Raziel got the short end of the stick when it comes to endings. None of the bad endings were good, but her "good" ending was by far the worst. I'd almost say it was worse than Sorami's normal end. Its not even the fact that it was one of those "Bitter-sweet" endings, I just felt that if the other two characters got a "happy" ending, she should of as well (I just felt like it was more along the lines of Sorami's normal ending, and not a "True" ending). There are a bunch of little things too, but i suppose those would be more or less nitpicky (*cough* where is my Samael route, she was almost best girl ;(, ahem..)

In terms of Routes: I'll have to go with this order of my personal enjoyment: Lilith > Sorami > Raziel

In terms of Characters I'll go with: Sorami > Samael >> Lilith > Raziel

[Why are visual novels becoming popular in the West?]

41 minutes ago, Eclipsed said:

They are becoming popular in the West because people in the West are playing them and enjoying them and then trying to get other people in the West to play them and enjoy them

With the hopes that one day VNs will be universally popular all over the World, to infinity and Buzz Lightyear

Popularity is a double-edged sword, to be honest. Yes, the medium as a whole does have alot of good things to offer but on the other hand, precisely because its niche, It can offer what it currently does. Take a look at Western gaming in general, and alot of the titles that get ported over from Japan. Many of those said titles go through a "localization" process, which at best can be labeled "Liberal", and at worst is outright censorship. Yes, i do want to see VNs more widely accepted, but at the same time, i'd rather it stay niche if it means there is less of a need and a possiblity for PC culture to come in and attempt to ruin the medium.