Today anime is distributed mostly by torrents and other distributed ways. It perhaps worked back when people downloaded things through direct connect. But thanks to pirate-hunters the downloads have left those fields.
The torrents will be intact, and new indexing sites will pop up, it's like gardening in a forest. And they'll probably focus on the most mainstream material, which pops up faster.
And personally I don't see VN/eroge targeted at all.
I hope I speak for all loli-lovers here on fuwanovel when I say we don't have to struggle to keep it to 2D.
2D lolis are so much cuter. I'm not attracted to real life children.
I hope I speak for all loli-lovers here on fuwanovel when I say we don't have to struggle to keep it to 2D.
2D lolis are so much cuter. I'm not attracted to real life children.
I think the people who say that "it's sick and twisted" generally refer to real life pedophiles. I see no harm in being a 2D lolicon. On a side note, there're loads of lolicons here
I've held off on this debate til now, but I've been asked to weigh in so I'll do so. I think my conclusions will be a bit different than what some were expecting. I also address some misconceptions in this thread regarding the role of Steam and other content distribution platforms in increasing VN sales.
VNs are not freeware
Commercial VNs cost hundreds of thousands of US dollars to produce. Developers do this for a living, and they're not paid very much to do it. It's a labor of love. They need support to continue making more games for us to enjoy. This doesn't change whether a game is untranslated, fan translated, or localized. People that play VNs without paying are essentially parasites freeloading off the paying fanbase. In the end, if too many people freeload instead of supporting a company, the company goes out of business and no more VNs get made. The parasitic ecosystem collapses.
To maintain a healthy ecosystem, people must support the games they love. When you buy a game, you're basically investing in the company's future. You're saying "Here's my money--make more games like this!"
The role of fan translation
More than 95% of Japanese VNs are untranslated. Fan translators provide a service by allowing us to enjoy titles in English we otherwise wouldn't have access to. Many fan translators choose high profile titles that are currently beyond the grasp of the nascent localization industry. Others choose titles that would never be localized due to controversial themes (e.g., lolicon). Fan translators provide their fan translating services free of charge--but they don't own the game license. All they can lay claim to is their translation, their derivative work.
When you play a fan translated game, you're expected to own the original Japanese version. Few people actually buy the original game. This behavior is typically written off because in the end, no sales are lost as a result of the fan translation. The people playing the game in English weren't the target audience for the game in the first place. Also, the customer's dollars won't be achieving their intended effect. "Make more games like this" really means "make more games like this that I can play". If a fan translator has to act as a middleman, financial support does not have its intended effect. You end up with more titles you want to play but can't, since 95% of titles won't be translated.
In the end, fan translation does not grow the paying fanbase. The true role of fan translation is to promote localization, allowing consumers to support games they love, to see more such titles in the future. Fan translation promotes localization by calling attention to the medium as well as particular titles. Many localization deals wouldn't have happened if fan translation efforts hadn't highlighted to Japanese developers/publishers that there was interest in these titles overseas.
The role of localization
Localization completes the support circuit by bringing Japanese VNs to us in a language we can understand--with the promise of more such titles in the future. It also promotes the medium more effectively than fan translators ever could, since official localization brings marketing and media attention.
When fan translation undermines localization by providing an excuse for people to freeload, its usefulness ends. This is why fan translations, in general, should not be distributed once official localizations are available.
On content distribution platforms (e.g., Steam)
These gather funding by attracting a different audience than the VN fandom that typically follows JAST and MG. The DRM that Steam uses increases sales, but not by converting pirates to customers. Rather, it was designed to prevent resale, ensuring that every customer is funding the developer/publisher rather than funding resellers such as Gamestop. Basically, releasing a VN on Steam exposes it to the Steam ecosystem (an ecosystem highly enriched for people willing to support the games they like), attracting customers that otherwise would not have known about or been interested in the product.
My stance on Planetarian and Grisaia
With my general philosophy on the issue explained, I'd like to qualify it a bit in this particular context. While there's no issue with Planetarian, the release of Grisaia will be a different version from that which was translated--the all-ages version rather than the original 18+ version. There are no plans to release the 18+ version. Putting aside my personal views on this decision, the fan translation has added value for some people, and therefore there is justification for retaining the fan translation on Fuwanovel. I have strong views on this topic, but they are related to my personal interests in the VN scene and thus are outside the scope of this argument.
I believe a translation is another work than the original, and in most cases they don't even fight over the same market.
I think a licensed translator should not have the right to block out other translations that have been made available under public domain. Even if the maker is the same. On one hand it would seem kind to remove it for the translator, but on the other hand that would make the old free licence void.
I'm not 100% sure, but I personally don't have any problems with Fuwanovel retaining torrents to the old patched game. The question is not if the new commercial translation should be hosted or not, it's a question if the translators still own the right to change the rules of use to the new owners, afterwards.
I don't think so. For comparison, if you release a book and that book is in a library, can you really demand them to stop distributing it?
This is going to be long so take a seat.
And don't you dare skimming through it or not reading any of the linked articles.
1. Misinterpretation of Fuwanovel mission statement
I will start with this as it should be simple to explain.
The portion of the mission statement that is used in the forum logo (and forum logo only) is just part of the whole mission.
As you can notice on the main website, the main logo there actually describes the website differently.
"Fan translated visual novels repository"
And if you browse the website and visit the mission statement section, you can see the mission is actually different from what the forum logo says, it is: "Visual Novels for the World"
As even included with the logo of the section:
Following up in the mission statement, three main objectives are mentioned there
There are three main objectives, they are:
1) Make visual novels popular in the West.
2) Promote fan translation
3) Create a community that celebrates fan translation and fan sharing.
When the forums logo was made, only the first part of the mission statement was put there, because otherwise it would be too long. And many people misinterpret "West" as "America", where as it just states the general mission statement Visual Novels for the World but with different words.
West in that case means outside of Japan (where Visual Novels already exist), so basically the rest of the world.
What I am getting at is that nowhere on the whole website it states anything about promoting Localized copies, ensuring sales of Localized copies or celebrating success of Localization companies and commercial market.
Instead it focuses on fan translation, fan efforts, fan sharing, fan creations and fan improvements to the original version.
The only reason Fuwanovel doesn't share licensed versions was out of Aaeru's "good will".
She decided not to include those releases as a gesture of friendliness to the companies.
How those companies responded to this good will and attempts to build a friendly relationship is a different matter entirely.
2. Piracy vs Sharing
The whole word "Piracy" is just wrongly used since the beginning of the internet.
If you imagine piracy in a pirate movie, they invade a ship and deprive people off their possessions.
But in the case of games, movies, music - that is never the case. "Piracy" on the internet just stands for "Sharing", but people for some reason needed a word that sounds evil.
Instead of taking away possessions of someone else, you are being offered a shared copy of what someone already has. You are being offered a flower seed out of unlimited supply to grow your own flower and ultimately build your love for flowers to the point you want to support the people who originally imported these flowers from different parts of the world.
Aaeru and Fuwanovel was always for "Sharing" and as so you could say also for "Piracy" since they are the same thing.
The stuff about flower seeds and building love for flowers is much better explained in the "Spreading culture does not decrease supporters. It increases it." part of fuwanovel About section.
Please read the whole article if you haven't already done so.
You can notice there the part of why true fans pay money.
"Your labour IS the scarcity not the copies, for it cannot be pirated."
And are you going to argue that it doesn't work? Even the mentioned Steins;Gate release says exactly the opposite, many of the fuwanovel staff bought the copy even though we still direct people to the shared copy.
It is not because they had to buy it, they wanted to buy it, partially thanks to the fact that the game is popularized thanks to Fuwanovel.
The article mentioned above wasn't directed at localization companies however, it was mainly directed at Japanese developers and why Aaeru decided to share the copies with the improvements of additional language version.
You can even see similar examples here of people buying a Japanese version if they liked the fuwanovel copy. I can even say it for myself - I am struggling to make a living and pay rent, but after finishing Iroseka (shared torrented version), I became true fan of FAVORITE, It is one of my dreams that once I solve my situation and get some more money, I will not buy some expensive food or a car or any other pleasure like that, I will buy the games with all the stupidly overpriced little perks in the box, because I want the companies to make more of it.
But in the meanwhile, all I can really do is spread the word of how good the games are, link people to the Fuwanovel Hoshimemo page, praise Iroseka and make more people try to play it in Japanese now, make more people interested in translating it for even wider audience - because I know that I can find people who will fall in love with those games just like I have and maybe they will have the funds to afford the support to the companies. I was able to talk to a Japanese FAVORITE fan yesterday in pso2JP, uniting together we can get more and more fame to the company that deserves it, even though the Japanese person can buy the game with earnings from an hour or 2 of his time, and all I can do is spread the word. But I am willing to spread the word for many hours, writing reviews and comparisons, because that is all I can spare, my time.
If I haven't "pirated" the games in the first place, I would never be able to do this, I would never be able to extend the fandom because I would never be able to play the game.
3. Localized releases vs Fan TL releases
So as mentioned above, we are still trying to carry Aaeru's good will of not sharing localized copies, a good will even after all the things the companies have done to her in response. The good will might weaken in times of controversy we can sometimes see, but since we believe that evil should not be repaid by evil, that eye for an eye is just the wrong approach, we still continue this good will and are not sharing English licensed releases of games.
But there was never such will for Japanese releases, as with those, following the points mentioned in point 2 of this post, the creator will have more success in building fandom and true fans.
And as such we are sharing Japanese copy of Planetarian, a game Aaeru added to the website, improved by a collective fan effort many years ago. It is the same version a lot of you (Including me) were able to enjoy for free, thanks to the original fan effort and Fuwanovel sharing service. And the same version, translated out of passion for the game, shared between fans of Key to make their games even more popular.
Without this fan copy and all the other fan translated Key games, most of us would not be able to enjoy them. Without the effort of fan subbing, lot of people would not be able to enjoy Key anime.
And without that the English Key fandom would not become what it is today, a fandom that is able to organize a giant project like Key 15th Anniversary Letter.
A project that will even be collaborating with Sekai project to deliver their letter, signifying their dedication.
A project full of TRUE fans who will buy the official Sekai release even though they have probably played Planetarian several times.
And you are asking us to simply remove all that from existence so only you and other people in the past were so privileged to enjoy it for free and become a fan. That new people cannot join the club anymore, become a fan of a free version to later potentially evolve into a true fan supporting Key by buying figs and games all over the place, just like many Fuwanovel members do.
And the same goes for Grisaia, we are sharing a Japanese version of the game improved by fan translation, a version that was able to build pretty big fandom of its own. A favorite game of many thanks to the free fan translation and the free availability on Fuwanovel (among other places).
A fandom built thanks to a collaborative effort of not only translators and other people on the project, but also seeders on the torrents, page creators, article writers, even people just saying "I loved this game" in a public place - all those efforts however important or hard they might be created what Grisaia true fandom today is and as such tons of them will be able to afford the steam release, while others can keep sharing the word and original fan project for free, to get even more people on the board to be able to spend their money, time or effort or combination of those to further support their beloved game.
And in the end by removing the original fan translation patch you are not only depriving newcomers of things you were able to have yourself, depriving them of the sun that used to shine on you.
But you are also undermining all the efforts of the people trying to share and make the game as popular as possible with the means available to them. Some people have money to import the game from Japan or later buy the game on Steam, some people only have words.
But power of the words might in the end turn out more powerful than power of money. By sharing a VN and making more people be interested in it and talk about it, you are essentially trading words for words - effort and words of the original creator for the good words and effort of review writers or simply people telling their friends to play it. And in the end this trade will result in a profit for the creator, as more and more people will be interested in the words the creator has to say in their games, more and more people will want more of those words and become a true fan, patron and supporter, trading their currency for more words.
4. Fuwanovel as a negative profit website
Since this was already said, I will keep it short.
But Fuwanovel, unlike many other sharing websites such as nyaa, generates ZERO profit of any of this. Quite the opposite, running website and fees connected to this actually costs money and we rely on charity of people, paying their money to host and run the website, offering their seedbox so we can spread the game torrents as quickly as possible.
And even the times when many of us together collected the money to buy the forum software, with whatever we could put aside at that moment.
And still there is not a single ad on the website, not a single cent was generated on Fuwanovel and that is how it is going to remain.
Efforts of all the people working on maintaining the website, work put into coding and additional features, forum moderation, creating new pages for newly released projects, maintaining good upload speed by seeding - all those efforts are done with 0 compensation and 0 profit.
And as such everyone can expect everything on Fuwanovel be equal to everyone, whether you came a year ago or now, you will have access to the same games for the same equal price, 0.
That's because 0 is the ONLY price equal to everyone in the world and even though $1 might seem equal to all Americans, it is not equal to everyone in the world, only 0 is.
And as the mission statement goes, Visual Novels for the World.
cryofrzd got a reaction from krill in No more Anime and Manga piracy?
cryofrzd reacted to solidbatman in How to become FuwaFamous
cryofrzd got a reaction from Tatsujin in Birthday thread
cryofrzd got a reaction from ExiledSaber in Lolicons
cryofrzd got a reaction from Steve in Birthday thread
cryofrzd got a reaction from Silvz in I'm at a lost for words... (HuniePop discussion)
cryofrzd got a reaction from Funyarinpa in I'm at a lost for words... (HuniePop discussion)
cryofrzd got a reaction from Baconpancake in I'm at a lost for words... (HuniePop discussion)
cryofrzd got a reaction from ScaryNightmareKN in Yoroshiku! ^ ^
cryofrzd got a reaction from Tenkuru in The Pigeon VN Did It