Pabloc

No, when Clannad was originally released it had a list price of 7500 yen (~61$), and today you can get a brand new copy of the first press limited edition for exactly 7836 yen (~64$) on Amazon. And this is a 640x480 unvoiced version, what you are getting here is a fully voiced version with 1280x960 art, so it's very far from "original art assets". What you said there is as wrong as it gets. Complaining about 50$ price tag is perfectly reasonable, you really don't have to make up false "arguments".

You're comparing apples to oranges. Both CB and FMA are absolutely terrible at ecchi (since they... kinda don't have it), so in this particular field even the shittiest harem crap will beat them (while they will obviously win in every other field, at least CB - FMA is just good, not awesome). As for ero RPGs/Roguelikes - they don't really need game-over-rape. Actually, I definitely prefer those that incorporate sexual content into the gameplay, instead of limiting it to token game-over scenes. Defeat-rape is much better when it doesn't lead to instant bad ends and the protagonist/heroine has to face long-term consequences (corruption, pregnancy, etc.). Sex can be a part of combat/leveling mechanics, there's prostitution and so on. There are also games like Kamidori, where the protagonist consensually bangs everything that looks more or less female (I hate that approach, though). But well, considering it's Winged Cloud, I'd expect the most crappy approach - fully consensual sex-scenes in fixed points, completely separated from the gameplay (beat "area 1" = get "token H-scene 1", repeat ad nauseam). Kinda like in Demon Master Chris (maybe with less rape, though scenes in DMC were so poorly written, that they didn't really seem like actual rape to me).

I'm sorry SP, but Clock Up releases Maggot Baits in 4 days, and I just couldn't bear to see myself not preordering that one (and there's Narcissu KS, too). (Also, KonoSora makes me wanna stay away from everything that resembles a school setting for a long, long time.) Though I wouldn't have bought Steam-infested stuff anyway. Well, at least the price is now reasonable, with that discount.

No, this should be meant to appeal to much wider audience. The majority of VN fans interested in Clannad have already read it with the previous, shitty TL years ago, and the most dedicated ones backed in on KS. Not many of them will buy it, not for this price at least. Western release of a huge, popular, all-ages VNs is simply perfect for expanding the VN fanbase on the West. That's what Sekai Project tries to do all the time, by censoring stuff and throwing it on Steam (actually, I'd say that's their only goal, since they aren't trying to appeal to the core VN-fans all that much...). Such price certainly won't help - people will choose buy 2 Sakura titles (or a shitty AAA game) instead of Clannad, regardless of an absolutely indescribable difference in quality. 50$ for a VN definitely could be a very fair price. Like I said, I consider most of the titles sold on the West to be very cheap, and I'm always defending those prices when people are complaining. However... In this case, a digital copy of a very old VN where some of the localization costs were already covered with >500 000$ from KS, is actually more expensive than in Japan (comparing it to either PC version or the PS3 one with better resolution). No matter how I look at this, something is seriously wrong here.

Yeah, but this is the price from 2010/05/28. And it's still for a physical copy (like that 40$ one that I linked), not for a digital one. But yeah, it's possible that this was Key's idea. Whenever people were complaining that Western releases of VNs are too expensive, I was always pointing out that they are much cheaper than in Japan, so they have nothing to complain about. This is the first time when I can't say this.

Western digital copy on Steam = 50$ Japanese physical copy (Memorial Edition) = 40$ (Amazon) I like SP's sense of humor.

And JAST USA, Peach Princess, G-Collections, Himeya Soft, Kitty Media, and every single H-anime Western publisher ever. Can you name ONE company (other than SP) that releases mosaiced H on the West (save for the two titles form MG that I mentioned earlier)? Just one - maybe I'm missing something? Except every single Western publisher that has anything to do with releasing visual novels or Hentai stuff in general. Oh yeah, I remember that enormous backlash that MG faced when they released mosaiced Suika and Ef... No, wait - that kinda never happened. What exactly did you have in mind? Do you have some examples? Even just one? Maybe I'm missing something? Yeah, because in case of official Western releases, there's no other censorship to speak of - mosaics simply don't exist here (with some extremely rare exceptions). Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to accuse you of spouting spectacularly dubious statements backed up by no evidence whatsoever. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. You are arguing with such conviction, that I'm starting to think that I somehow missed a bunch of official, mosaiced releases that are currently flooding the Western market. Honestly, I'm just curious where are your arguments coming from. Indeed, I didn't see it the last time I checked... and I'm not quite sure if it was there back then (I think I would have noticed it, or somebody would have mentioned it instead of quoting the FAQ, but maybe I'm wrong). Anyway, like this it's perfectly fine. To stay on topic (somewhat), I'll add that, unlike many people, I really like the idea of cheaper voiceless version. It gives customers more options, and that's always good. Considering the costs of voice licensing, it really makes sense to split releases like this, instead of bloating the price of the entire VN. I don't get why so many people were complaining about it - no matter how I look at it, two options are much better than just one release.

The "default expectation" here is "no mosaics", because almost every single 18+ VN release on the West does NOT have them. It's often mentioned as one of the advantages of official releases vs fan-translations. Why would anyone suddenly expect something else? Why would anyone even ask about it? As for informing about mosaics, MG somehow does this in a very clear way, without any controversies, and without using the word "censorship". They do go quite far with this (they dedicated 2 pages in the Ef artbook for the explanation about their localization and mosaics), but that's how it should be. They know that everyone expects and uncensored release, so they do whatever they can to inform the customers when something is different than "default expectations". For some mysterious reason, there was no outrage when they released those two VNs with mosaics. How about Sekai? They slapped a term "unrated" on it. Why? It says exactly nothing - like I said, all 18+ VNs are "unrated" on the West, nobody cares about it. Heck, nobody even uses this term in the context of VNs. Unlike the term "uncensored"... But yeah, those terms sound so incredibly different there's no way anyone would make any mistakes. It's certainly a better idea to use a perfectly meaningless "unrated" instead of a perfectly clear "with mosaic". Great job. If this really wasn't an intentional choice meant to deceive less cautious customers, they are retarded. Going back to the G-Sen case - transparency and communication seems to be a bit of an issue here again. They were treating the "cropping" topic as a taboo, and as far as I know, they didn't even say whether they are planning to release the 18+ edition on Denpasoft or not. Or maybe I'm just missing their announcements? Correct me if I'm wrong. As for updating art - there are plenty of good solutions: 1) Redrawing and expanding CG into a true, non-cropped HD. That's obviously the best solution. Definitely the most expensive one, but even though it might seem too good to be realistic, it's not unheard of - https://vndb.org/r3723 to mention just one example (and that's a total upgrade form 16-color graphics). 2) Scrolling - easier, cheaper, but less comfortable. Still, it preserves the original artwork in widescreen just fine, and you don't have to use the scrolling feature at all - you just get cropped version then. 3) Choice - you pick either cropped CGs or original ones with black borders - that's a no-brainer. Kizuato/Shizuku remake did this as well - they included the original 16-color editions. Generally, the best idea is to let people choose. It's simple - you have old artwork, old cutscenes, everything - just slap those together with remastered stuff and let people pick whatever they want. A very easy way to make (almost) everyone happy with little to no additional costs (unless there are some licensing issues, but this shouldn't be the case here). It's actually a rather common practice, now that I think about it...

Errr, no - you CAN call it censored. It isn't "censored more than the JP version", but it can't be considered "uncensored" in any way - like I said, this means "no mosaics". So no, Denpasoft's 18+ Grisaia is still censored. Suika and Ef released by MangaGamer are also censored, but MG explicitly warns customers about it (using tags - "with mosaics" or "reduced mosaics"), instead of using completely meaningless terms (I'm pretty sure nobody officially rates Western 18+ VN releases, so technically all of them are "unrated").

@Dergonu Censorship isn't limited only to removal of content. Altering original material in a certain way can qualify as such, too. And no, original pictures are NOT drawn with mosaics - those are applied later (sure, some artists take that into consideration, and don't give a damn about drawing those parts correctly, but that's beside the point). "Uncensored" always used to mean "without Japanese mosaic censoring" - because this used to be the only censorship to speak of. In the past, cutting 18+ content from Western releases wasn't that common (only Hirameki was doing this regularly... and they're long dead).

From what one of the editors said on Steam, apparently their censorship is limited pretty much only to pictures - text is almost unaltered and the sex still remains in the story (it just isn't explicitly shown), so the plot shouldn't be affected. At least that's what he claims. And yeah, the poor job at cropping is AkabeiSoft's fault, not Sekai's. But... so what? It doesn't change the fact it's a cut version with not-that-great, cropped "HD". And since AkabeiSoft only made an all-ages "HD" version (so - no "HD" H-CGs), the chances for an English 18+ release are very slim. Buying it does NOT support "releasing VNs on the West". It supports the practice of releasing ONLY censored, Steam-DRM-ridden versions of originally 18+ VNs with no choice whatsoever. Because why bother with uncut releases, when people will buy whatever you throw at them anyway?

I want. Realism aside, it would be cute and funny, and getting over it could be quite romantic. Vanilla is boring and pretty much unfappable anyway, so everything that can make it a bit more interesting is a good thing. Also, there would be no problem if "the majority" of highschooler heroines were virgins. The issue is when all of them are virgins, occasionally with a teacher heroine thrown in for good measure. It's just getting dull after a while. Well, it's not just that - pretty much everything in typical moeges/charages gets so damn repetitive. That's why I rarely read titles form those genres...

@Exaggerated blood, pain etc. I'd say those are just symbols. Kinda similar to giant sweat drops or pulsing veins on a forehead. Small amount of blood would be covered by mosaic-censorship, so they need much more than that. Internal cumshots would by unnoticeable, so a fountain of cum gushing out of vagina is there to emphasize those. And so on. @Virgin heroines I don't mind either way, as long as the entire character is written sensibly. When a girl, who was supposed to have zero experience, suddenly acts like a professional pornstar during her first time, then it's annoying. Like all scenes that break the characterization really - it's just bad writing. Sadly, it's quite common. I don't get it - it only shatters the cuteness, that's one of the main charms of innocent virgins. Such cases aside, virgins are perfectly fine. They are great in darker titles, because it makes all those horrible rape/NTR/whatever scenes that happen to them much more powerful. They are also okay in vanilla - it just makes everything cuter (as long as it's at least somewhat plausible and they don't act like super-experienced sluts I mentioned earlier). From the vanilla ones, I remember that Ef handled it very well. Quartett also had some interesting themes. Main heroine's route from Dark Blue was also great (well, that VN was quite good in general). If we forget about gruesome murders and all that darker plot for a moment and focused only on the triangle between the protagonist, his childhood friend and love interest Otoha and his good friend Reiya (who's also supposed to be Otoha's fiancé, but nothing is set in stone). We get a very plausible romance story, where bonds between childhood friends are strong, but not unbreakable, and a fair rivalry between the protagonist and his friend (who doesn't necessarily seem like a typical NTR-villain) can go either way depending on protagonist's actions (or inaction). Of course, the main plot distorts everything a little bit, but with small modifications, this love triangle would work perfectly in normal slice-of-life/romance titles. Actually, I'd love to see a title like this, where the protagonist isn't the only male character who can win heroines. No rape, NTR and stuff - just an option for other heroines to hook up with different guys when the protagonist get a girlfriend (instead of disappearing or being forever alone, like in typical moeges). Or a story featuring a breaking up with one girl, getting over it, and finding someone else (possibly after some relationship issues as well). To sum things up, virgins definitely have their place in VNs. But non-virgin heroines (or girls who lose virginity with someone else) could give material for very original stories - they should appear outside of the NTR genre more often.

TnC has low sexual content though, around 1-2 H-scenes per route (plus 2 in bad endings). As for rape... In case of Yaoi, I'd rather have that than consensual, romantic sex. I don't like BL in general, so I'm not a big fan of bishies getting all romantic with each other. But rape is fine. That aside, there's nothing really special about liking TnC, regardless of the gender and sexual orientation. It's simply a good, dark VN.

And that's why it had to be closed. It would inevitably lead to a conclusion that Steam (with it's current "no-porn" policy at least) is not a good place to buy VNs, and could direct their potential customers to JAST or MG. Steam doesn't want constructive discussions, Steam wants people paying money for utterly worthless/censored crap.

So, they moved on from [horrendously written, shit-tier porn without porn] to [horrendously written, shit-tier porn with very little porn]. Definitely a step in the right direction. Now if they hired a chimpanzee in place of their current """writer""" and increased the amount of porn about 10x, they would have a chance to produce something on a level of thrashy, mass-produced SofthouseSeal nukiges.

Except that visual novels evolved from Japanese adventure games and dating sims by getting rid of the gameplay and focusing on storyline and/or sex-scenes. What you are talking about would be a devolution. As for the Wikipedia article, yeah - some VNs have minigames. And some games use a VN-style presentation. So what? How are those examples labelled in that article again? Let me remind you - "Lost Odyssey, a role-playing video game" and "fighting game series Blazblue". For some reason, they weren't labelled as VNs there. Why? Because the article you quoted yourself actually proves you wrong. Good job. I already said that there are such things as hybrids, that mix up elements from various genres (like BlazBLue). They obviously cannot be considered a "norm" for any of the mixed genres. How much blatant bullshit can you squeeze into one short sentence? Are you for real? Sakura Clicker was made by Winged Cloud, not by Sekai Project, and it's neither a VN nor an RPG. It's a... well, a clicker game. As for what Sekai Project is known for - it means nothing and proves even less.

@Firecat Enlighten me, which part of VNDB goals (that don't say what can be considered a VN) and Fuwanovel's clunky, but rather sensible definition (with a video showing examples of perfectly typical VNs without a hint of gameplay, except some minigames in LB) supports your claim that you can label random adventure games or RPGs as VNs with no rhyme or reason?

@Rose There are some decent writers out there (like the one who wrote https://vndb.org/v14125), but they are the minority. Most OELVNs have crappy-fanfic-grade "writers". Of course. It makes no sense on the West, because we already have an adventure games genre (with all that point-and-click stuff). "VN" is an infinitely better term. Japanese usage of the ADV genre is somewhat distorted to begin with, like it always happens when they are borrowing English words.

No sensible Japanese person would label a dating sim as a VN. In Japan, simulation games are even further apart from VNs than on the West (though most titles that we label as VNs actually belong to the adventure game genre there). And "pron" can have a lot to do with the story, unless you are only reading crappy moeges with random, out-of-place sex-scenes. But whatever, you can label random shit as a VN, Doom as a point-and-click adventure game, and The Lord of the Rings as a space opera. Because screw genres, you know better. That's the biggest problem with OELVNs - nobody wants to write anything. Or rather - nobody can. Unless the Western scene gets some actual writers who have some interesting stories to tell, nothing will change. Setting can be Japanese, there's no reason why a competent writer with sufficient knowledge should avoid that. Actually, I'd gladly read a deconstruction of a moege genre, where the typical setting and characters are treated with an unhealthy dose of realism. So, we have a typical Mr Average protagonist, who is nice but has no redeeming qualities. Sexy girl transfers to his class, he is nice to her and all, but she friendzones him and sleeps with some muscular retard instead. Protagonist's childhood friend is in relationship with a rich guy from their neighborhood. His older sister gets knocked up by some handsome asshole, who disappears afterwards. His teacher is married and hates kids. In the end, the protagonist goes to jail for making moves on a loli, and gets gang-raped by a bunch of guys there. Now, that would be fun. ^^

If I remember right, the HCGs in this VN aren't even censored in the JP version (because nothing too explicit was shown in the first place). It's a nice thing, but it's very far from a breakthrough really. Also, screw Steam.

Err, no - when it looks different and has different gameplay, then it means exactly that - it's not a VN. Otherwise genres would be completely pointless. -.-' VNs are novels with visuals and ZERO gameplay elements (other than choices). If something has gameplay, like TellTale perfectly typical adventure games that have absolutely nothing to do with VNs, it's game, not a VN. Games have story-heavy gernes too. If a game uses typical VN-like presentation and novel-style writing (that is, it looks like a VN), it might be considered a hybrid at best (like Rance or Kamidori). Loren is just an RPG, even developer labels it as such. As for OP's question - yes, the majority of OELVNs must have Japanese settings. Because people who make them don't want to tell a story using VN as a medium. They just want to make a VN, that's all. That's why they are trying to mimic anime-style art, Japanese stereotypes, themes and setting, and sometimes even throw a bunch of random Japanese words here and there. Now, you can write a story in whatever setting you want, that's not a problem. As long as you know what you are doing, that is. Unfortunately, a typical OELVN writer has no idea about Japan, so the end result is almost always miserable. I know only one OELVN that had a Japanese setting that wasn't completely screwed up (https://vndb.org/v10754).

Cyclet (Fukushuu no Necromancer, Dasaku) and Valkyria (Toki wo Kakeru Shojo) for the interesting stuff. Magical☆Girl (Machuu Tsukai Claes, Grimoire, Mahou Shoujo Miracle Yuitto) for the fun stuff. Though I liked only ~half of the titles I read from them. And Fuguriya, for obvious reasons.

The question is: will it offer anything that currently existing sites don't? Comprehensive databases already exist (VNDB and EGS), news are covered on blogs and sites (like Hau~Omochikaeri or Fuwa), there are already places where you can look for team members (Fuwa, TL-Wiki to some extent, plus Lemmasoft for OELVN creators). Since VNs are quite niche, the "market" for sites related to them is pretty much saturated at this point. To attract a solid userbase, you'd have to offer more than all of the existing sites combined (otherwise, people will just stick to the sites they are familiar with). Small suggestion: while there is a good database for VNs, there is no such thing for other kinds of eroge (ero-RPGs, dating/raising sims, strategy games, action games etc.). Maybe do something like that? I would be very useful.