Jump to content

Darklord Rooke

Backer
  • Posts

    4470
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    33

Reputation Activity

  1. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Helvetica Standard in Ask sanahtlig: Answers to Common Issues and Concerns in the VN community   
    There seems to be a similar theme to your answers, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is. I think you’re being a little too subtle...
  2. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Narcosis in Ask sanahtlig: Answers to Common Issues and Concerns in the VN community   
    There seems to be a similar theme to your answers, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is. I think you’re being a little too subtle...
  3. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Mr Poltroon in Ask sanahtlig: Answers to Common Issues and Concerns in the VN community   
    There seems to be a similar theme to your answers, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is. I think you’re being a little too subtle...
  4. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Loco15 in Ask sanahtlig: Answers to Common Issues and Concerns in the VN community   
    There seems to be a similar theme to your answers, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is. I think you’re being a little too subtle...
  5. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Rose in Ask sanahtlig: Answers to Common Issues and Concerns in the VN community   
    There seems to be a similar theme to your answers, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is. I think you’re being a little too subtle...
  6. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from LiquidShu in Ask sanahtlig: Answers to Common Issues and Concerns in the VN community   
    There seems to be a similar theme to your answers, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is. I think you’re being a little too subtle...
  7. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Darbury in Visual Novels and the Bechdel Test   
    Agreed and disagreed.
    Agreed because people who use the Bechdel Test to brand things sexist or not sexist are bloody idiots.
    Disagreed because the test doesn't do any judging at all. It just asks whether or not a set of conditions is met, nothing more. In fact, the "test" is just an extrapolation from dialogue in one of Bechdel's comic strips. Essentially, two female characters wonder if there are any movies out worth watching. The three conditions are what they set for something they'd find interesting. Not sexist or not sexist, just interesting.
  8. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Helvetica Standard in VN Image Editing: The Skinny on Vertical Type   
    As a professional graphic designer myself, indeed rotating text is the way to go.
    You can also modify a font and/or let photoshop's pharagraph tool do the magic
    but in the end what you want is to keep type space even and readable.
  9. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Mr Poltroon in Eep Opp Ork Ah Ah (Editing Onomatopoeia in VNs)   
    You know, there's nothing wrong with literal translations provided they are accompanied by a shitload of translator notes. If no translation notes (or explanations) are forthcoming, then leaving Japanese words in the script is poor translation philosophy. In fact I'll go one step further, leaving unexplained Japanese words in the script is an incomplete translation. It's why literally translated literature come with 400 odd translator notes in the back, and it's part of the reason why official anime is localised (because it's not a medium that can support such TL notes well.) 
  10. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Mr Poltroon in [Fuwa exclusive][Rant] Promoting VNs in a culture of apathy   
    Mate, I have no idea why you even pay attention to people complaining. People don't like that you advertise? Tough. People don't like what you have to say? Tough. People don't like the way you say things? Tough. A significant number of people on the internet need to learn how to ignore shit they don't like without a piece of software to do it for them. It used to be a valuable skill back in the day.
     
    On the other hand they are also free to complain, and whine, and bitch, just as you're free to ignore them. Do as you wish within the rules, you're lucky enough to live in a free country. and let people react how they react *shrugs*
  11. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from XReaper in [Fuwa exclusive][Rant] Promoting VNs in a culture of apathy   
    Mate, I have no idea why you even pay attention to people complaining. People don't like that you advertise? Tough. People don't like what you have to say? Tough. People don't like the way you say things? Tough. A significant number of people on the internet need to learn how to ignore shit they don't like without a piece of software to do it for them. It used to be a valuable skill back in the day.
     
    On the other hand they are also free to complain, and whine, and bitch, just as you're free to ignore them. Do as you wish within the rules, you're lucky enough to live in a free country. and let people react how they react *shrugs*
  12. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from SilverLi in [Fuwa exclusive][Rant] Promoting VNs in a culture of apathy   
    Mate, I have no idea why you even pay attention to people complaining. People don't like that you advertise? Tough. People don't like what you have to say? Tough. People don't like the way you say things? Tough. A significant number of people on the internet need to learn how to ignore shit they don't like without a piece of software to do it for them. It used to be a valuable skill back in the day.
     
    On the other hand they are also free to complain, and whine, and bitch, just as you're free to ignore them. Do as you wish within the rules, you're lucky enough to live in a free country. and let people react how they react *shrugs*
  13. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Darbury in Eep Opp Ork Ah Ah (Editing Onomatopoeia in VNs)   
    You know, there's nothing wrong with literal translations provided they are accompanied by a shitload of translator notes. If no translation notes (or explanations) are forthcoming, then leaving Japanese words in the script is poor translation philosophy. In fact I'll go one step further, leaving unexplained Japanese words in the script is an incomplete translation. It's why literally translated literature come with 400 odd translator notes in the back, and it's part of the reason why official anime is localised (because it's not a medium that can support such TL notes well.) 
  14. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from sanahtlig in [Fuwa exclusive][Rant] Promoting VNs in a culture of apathy   
    Mate, I have no idea why you even pay attention to people complaining. People don't like that you advertise? Tough. People don't like what you have to say? Tough. People don't like the way you say things? Tough. A significant number of people on the internet need to learn how to ignore shit they don't like without a piece of software to do it for them. It used to be a valuable skill back in the day.
     
    On the other hand they are also free to complain, and whine, and bitch, just as you're free to ignore them. Do as you wish within the rules, you're lucky enough to live in a free country. and let people react how they react *shrugs*
  15. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Chronopolis in Ojousamas for All! (AKA, The First Reference Rule)   
    That's the same phrasing that gets used sometimes in fantasy novels, explaining items in the world, and the flow is great.
  16. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Mr Poltroon in Oh, The Editing Mistakes I Have Made (Part 1 of ∞)   
    Rook - Admittedly, through everything I said, there are indeed a lot of ellipsis in fan translations.
     
    The kind you can see don't bother me much (although ellipsis have 3 dots, there's no need to use more than one ellipsis to indicate a pause. 3 dots are enough. Not 6. Not 4. Not 12. Japan loves using more than three.), for instance, three dots at the start of a sentence is so incredibly normal and usual in a VN I've learnt to process them as some kind of pause before speaking (or in this case, monologuing, because he seems to be suffering from brain lapses on a regular basis).
     
    Of course, it doesn't make much sense to have a dialogue of "..." followed by more ellipsis, but in context it just means he had no reply and instead transitioned to thinking/monologue.
     
    Personally, ellipsis in a monologue are nigh on useless unless you're in the middle of rationalising or making deductions. That's what I figure happens in the second set of ellipsis that starts a sentence. Indeed, if you want to fix it in English, the ellipsis itself isn't the problem, but its positioning. Just move the ellipsis to the end of the previous sentence and it's much less offensive.
     
    As for that mammoth of a dash, it indicates his thoughts were interrupted, or trailed off (because Japan does it differently). Presumably the writer was suffering from cramps and the "-" became a "---------".
     
     
    Although this is all mostly irrelevant in the context of this blog post. While there are lots of ellipsis, if used correctly they aren't a problem.
     
    Darbury has the problem of attempting to match the voice (which I personally consider an important factor. I don't know Japanese, but it throws me out of the flow when a complicated Japanese sentence magically transmutes into a one word reply; or when the -kun's accidentally dress up as -san's) to the textbox.
     
    As it is dialogue, I think this shouldn't have become a problem, but apparently there were too many ellipsis. Logically one doesn't speak like the hyperbolic example we were given, so how do sentences end up like this?
    "So … at times … the script reads … like this."
    I'd say "Don't base yourself on the Japanese use of ellipsis, but feel free to follow dialogue pauses in speech."
  17. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Mr Poltroon in Oh, The Editing Mistakes I Have Made (Part 1 of ∞)   
    TiagFromVenice - (I don't intentionally muck up people's names, honest ) that reply is hella insightful, and is fairly on the money. VNs replace a lot of written narration with pictures, and most VNs are prose light, which could be a reason a lot of ellipses are used.
     
    The image you linked to features a voiceless protagonist (I'm fairly certain.) But you're right again when you imply that people are more tolerant of ellipses in dialogue, or internal dialogue, than narration. 
     
    There still tends to be an overuse of ellipses in translations though, which comes from punctuation usage differences between the Japanese and English. Take the image you linked to, for example (WHOA that's an incredibly literal piece of translation.) The first 2 sentences. We have "..." followed by an ... in the narration. What is this actually supposed to denote? A pause ... followed by another pause? Wouldn't you normally just call this one long pause? In English you would, but in Japanese this sort of stuff is common, and you could have text box after text box after text box filled with nothing but ellipses. In English I'd suggest you'd just have one ellipsis here, and it would just be 3 dots, not 6. So you'd delete the ellipsis at the beginning of the second line, otherwise you get people wrinkling their nose.
     
    And if you look at the second set of ellipses, down the bottom of your linked image you'll find an ellipsis separating two sentences. Separating two paragraphs. That's really tricky, in English an ellipsis at the end of a sentence usually indicates you're trailing off, and yet I've never seen an ellipsis stuck at the beginning of a sentence in narration. Sometimes you see one at the beginning of a sentence when somebody intrudes on a piece of dialogue (or narration), so you're catapulted half-way into something. So either way you're doing something considered weird in English. I would probably suggest joining those 2 sentences together to form a single sentence, so the ellipsis would no longer separate two sentences, but rather parts of a single sentence.
     
    But that's not half as weird as that humongous dash at the end of the screen, what on Earth is that meant to mean? I dunno. 
     
    Anyway, the point is that going from Japanese to English, punctuation, and even sentence lengths and structures, aren't fixed. This is because the language techniques of Japan are different from the language techniques of English. As a translator (and editor) there's a degree of latitude to fiddle with these language techniques as long as you keep tone and whatnot consistent, which a lot of fan-translators don't take up and unfortunately keeping things overly literal will result in abhorrent abuse of ellipses (along with other problems.)
  18. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Mr Poltroon in Oh, The Editing Mistakes I Have Made (Part 1 of ∞)   
    On the context of ellipsis (and in an attempt to spare my life for yet another day), I've glanced through a couple of Portuguese novels, and particularly direct speech, ellipsis are indeed fairly common.
     
    I have incredibly limited knowledge about novels, because, contrary to expectations, I don't often read, if ever. But as far as I know, dialogue doesn't appear too often (or in other words, there's much more narration that draws it out) in novels, and I'd like to say that's the reason there's such a lack of ellipsis. When a person speaks, certainly they make pauses, a novel could cut a piece of dialogue in the middle, fit a bit of narration as the pause and continue.
     
    "I've got something to tell you" John said solemnly, and after taking a deep breath he added "your daughter has gone missing."
     
    I don't know the proper structure in English, I don't even know it in Portuguese properly, but I think what's above is theoretically possible...?
    Actual quote from Portuguese showcasing what I mean:



     
    In short, VN's are mostly comprised of dialogue. They are also usually limited to a simple dialogue box. Under these circumstances one is constricted on the amount they can fit in the box, and each box can be only used for dialogue or can only be used for narration, not both.
    I'd say using ellipsis to showcase the pauses in speech is really the only available option.
     
    Overall it will seem like a huge amount of ellipsis, but I'll blame that on the huge amount of dialogue. VN's who write on top of the screen (http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y26b29CaMe0/maxresdefault.jpg) should theoretically suffer less from this, but since they're still voiced, and they end up getting ports to a console with the smaller box system ( http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5k5wpzVl2qY/maxresdefault.jpg), they're still made with that in mind and little to no dialogue/narration mingling.
     
     
    Of course, ellipsis like these should still freeze in hell:
    ..............I don't know...........maybe it was my father.......?
  19. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Darbury in Oh, The Editing Mistakes I Have Made (Part 1 of ∞)   
    Sorry you had to take one for the team, Tiag. But hey, better you than me.
     
    And trust me, Rooke, I plan to be much more ruthless with ellipses in future efforts. They shall know fear.
  20. Like
    Darklord Rooke got a reaction from Darbury in Oh, The Editing Mistakes I Have Made (Part 1 of ∞)   
    Sweet job on KoiRizo
     
    I should point out, overuse of ellipses is one of those things translated Visual Novels are constantly ridiculed over. You'll note that fan-translations mostly keep them in, whereas professional localisations (JAST, Sekai, and MG all use fan-TLs so they're not included) strongly limit ellipses use, and here localisations are doing the better job. Take NISA's translations, for example. An excess of ellipses makes me want to kill the first person I see... *looks at Tiag*
     
    Japanese Language don't really have rules for ellipses use, so feel free to eliminate them where appropriate in the English. English don't use them anywhere near as freely as the Japanese - we have stricter rules, and a culture which frowns on abusing certain forms of punctuation. Take a look at how often ellipses are used in Western novels and compare that to how often Japanese Light Novels and other Japanese media use them. It's not because Western people don't pause, in case anybody was wondering xD
  21. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Nayleen in Fuwalegends~The Tale of Whore: The Fuwan Who Couldn't Even   
    And Nayleen descended from the heavens to smite both bitch and whore (banned his ass for good) and he saw that peace had returned to the lands once more.
  22. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Clephas in Fallout 4 Is Not Very Exciting to Me, and Here's Why.   
    Bethesda's games' real attraction is the degree to which they can be modded and individuals can transform them, but yeah, I agree with you about how pathetic Bethesda's writing is in general.  I didn't play Skyrim or Oblivion for the writing, I played it for walking the world as a vampire or for the fun of sneaking around shooting people with arrows from hidden locations, or...
     
    Basically, I never really considered them rpgs, except in the penultimate pen-and-paper sense.  They were crappy action games that had a lot of side-crap that was relatively fun to mess with, lol. 
     
    So far I like the Witcher 3 a great deal more than Inquisition... but that is because they screwed up the combat in Dragon age games in general by refusing to commit to a more traditional crpg format or a full action one (the fusion made me feel like I was playing an MMO sometimes, right along with the endless busywork of such games).  Not to mention that the game was surprisingly ugly (character design) outside of the main cast and several of the main characters were so annoying I couldn't bring myself to care about their lives or reasons for fighting or whatever.
     
    Fallout 4... they would have to leave the actual writing to someone else to make it workable, frankly.  I grew to dislike the way no one had really actually built anything new since the apocalypse, both in New Vegas and in 3.  It was like people were either hopeless barbarians, sheep, or parasitic nation-states incapable of building anything new.  The goofiness of some aspects of the setting stops being amusing and chilling after the first ten hours or so, and it ends up completely destroying my engrossment in that world in general.
     
    I guess it is because too many aspects of the setting disregard reality, such as the fact that a quarter of a millennium after the disaster there are still working mechanical parts to salvage, lol.  Steel doesn't generally last that long if no one is taking care of it.
     
    Edit: Caesar's Legion and the Californians were the two aspects that made sense in New Vegas, for obvious reasons.  Without them, I would have been tempted to just drop it entirely.
  23. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Decay in (NSFW) Tales of the perverted swordwoman - Random Review - Sakura Fantasy Chapter 1   
    I AM a native english speaker and you can probably use wake in that way. I guess most people would say "wake up" instead of "wake", but simply using "wake" sounds like a pointlessly archaic yet still correct way of saying it. Something someone pompous would say. That's probably not how that character is supposed to come across, so it's still shit writing. More likely, it's the writer who is pompous and not the character. Unintentionally injecting your own personality and speech patterns into characters they don't belong in is a sure sign of bad writing.
     
    A kinetic novel is a VN without any choices whatsoever. There are plenty of linear VNs that are not kinetic novels. 
  24. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to Clephas in Regarding demands for fan translation project quality standards   
    lol, neither side - commercial or fan - really respects the original material.  Do you know what a translation team is thinking toward the end of the project - or even halfway through?  It is very very simple... 'let's get this frigging over with so I can forget about this hell!'   Quality is something you think about at the beginning and perhaps a few months after you finished the project, not something you are going to be thinking about at the end, unless you are insane. 
     
    One of the problems of trying to get a 'quality' translation out of anyone is that most companies and fantranslation groups are unwilling to seriously rethink the process itself when it isn't working.  Fantranslators wait for a particular translator/editor/tlc to return, eventually causing the project to rot.  Commercial translators are so focused on just getting it out of localization that they frequently make amateurish blunders that make fantranslators look better in comparison - yes, this happens surprisingly often. 
     
    Jast is an exception... but look at Jast.  It takes them the better part of three to four years to get even the shortest of VNs released, and no one believes them for even a second when it comes to release dates.  Any decent translator could have finished translating Hanachirasu inside a month if he was being paid to do nothing but that (that means using the time others use for their rl jobs for it), but instead it took five very long years.  Do you have any idea how ridiculous an inflation of time that is? 
     
    Fantranslators have a much wider variance in quality, meaning that they can be so bad as to be incomprehensible or so wonderful they make the best commercial translations look like someone took a battle axe to the Mona Lisa.  However, the majority of the curve tends toward the former, not the latter.  Commercial translations tend to be more reliable in terms of quality... but that is a midline quality that never manages to do anything but 'get the job done'. 
     
    Simple things like a simple 'konbanwa' turning into 'Report, soldier' (actual example from Valkyria Chronicles PS3) are examples of wtf screwups by localization teams, but you see even more incomprehensible mistakes from some of the fantranslators out there (Kamidori is full of them, as an example played by many Fuwans). 
  25. Like
    Darklord Rooke reacted to sanahtlig in Regarding demands for fan translation project quality standards   
    I suppose I could reply at greater length to this, but I'll keep this short and sweet.  If you want the assurance of a quality translation, fan translations are the wrong place to be looking.  Buy professional releases, and hold them to high standards.  Fan translations almost by definition don't respect the wishes of the creators.  It's a bit silly to say that a bad translation respects them less when no respect existed to begin with.  As for respect for the wishes of "fans who actually care"... I'm not sure why such wishes deserve respect?  Why should anyone respect the wishes of those who seek to limit their freedom (to produce and enjoy low-quality translations)?  You're free to choose whether or not to "waste your time" with questionable translations.  But by demanding that low-quality translations not be available, you're restricting the freedom for everyone to choose and decide for themselves.  That's a very condescending attitude, and I hope you realize why people label such attitudes "elitist".
×
×
  • Create New...