Umineko: Thoughts, Opinions, and the Realization That I Am Too Stupid To Understand This Game (Spoilers)

[Funyarinpa]

-----Might slightly spoil the game for you-----

 

 

 

I finished Umineko recently and I'd like to share my feedback.

 

Umineko is unique. It claims to have no choices, but actually that's wrong.  The truth is that Umineko's choices are not made by clicking. They are made by thinking. To believe, or not. To think, or not. To love, or to not.

 

The game is more than murder mystery. It's an expedition into the human heart and mind, believing and thinking, love and sorrow. The character sprites are simplistic, and except for a few parts (some hands look like they were drawn by a five-year old), they manage to convey emotions really well. (Also, some sprites are gorgeous.) However, the background- in both music and art- steals the show. The soundtrack really fits the surreal atmosphere, and I would not be surprised if someone told me that all CG's ingame were actually oil paintings. 

 

The game requires reasoning and thought to be fully understood, and to be honest, I am incapable of that sort of thing, so I did not get the enjoyment out of Umineko that many others did.

 

I'll elaborate this by editing it later on because writing it all at once would take several hours.

 

Edit 1: (MEGA SPOILER)

 

Bern's Trial was probably my favorite part in the whole VN. The sense of progression and improvement I felt from seeing through some of the wordplay and puzzles was incredible, and I think that this concept ("read through a story objectively and then cross-examine theories and testimonies, see through wordplay and eventually pin the culprit"), if expanded upon, would be very successful. 

[Mr Poltroon]

Right. I too agree with the above. 

I have concluded that I am unable to get the full enjoyment from this game like many others did.

[Guest]

What the game wants you to understand, isn't the "mystery" in the story.

 

The mystery part is the one led by Battler and was in my humble opinion absolutely disastrous.

there was ridicoulous reasoning and a pointless fight between him and Beatrice. Worthless

 

Beatrice is just playing with a brainless kid. I'm not saying she's smart either, but at least she's interesting.

 

The core aspect of the story is the psycological one.

 

The game wants you to understand the character, how they became what they are, why they are taking some actions rather than others.

It about the humans in the story rather than the story itself.

 

That's why characters such as : Rosa, Maria, Eva and Ange are so interesting.

 

What drives people to madness, to anger, to kindness ? What is love ? What is hatred ?

 

So many interesting questions brilliantly illustrated and scenarised.

You get to really understand the life path of most of the main characters and the influence it had on them.

[AceAttorney]

For me, a lot of the appeal of Umineko was the fact that it made you think to get the full value out of it. Not only does it ask you to think for yourself repeatedly, but it even stuck with that philosophy to the end by never fully spelling things out for the reader. I had a friend who casually (and perhaps mindlessly) read through Umineko, and he could not figure anything out, even by the end of Episode 7! Needless to say, he did not enjoy the novel as much as I did, likely because he did not put any effort into interpreting the novel.

 

After realizing some of the truths behind the story for yourself, many aspects of the plot and characters that you previously took for granted take unexpected twists. It's very rewarding to figure these things out, and I feel that the amount of enjoyment you get of out this novel is proportional to the amount of thought you are willing to put into it. Umineko's style isn't for everyone, but for those who do like it, it's irreplaceable.

 

Upon re-reading some of Umi, I found myself near tears at some of the magic scenes that initially seemed "silly" or "cool" on my first read. The amount of symbolism and foreshadowing is really astonishing. The actions and motives of nearly every character takes an entirely different light when you consider what must of REALLY happened behind the scenes in each episode, and that sort of character and plot depth really brought Umineko from "Excellent" to "Masterpiece" in my eyes.

[Funyarinpa]

 I had a friend who casually (and perhaps mindlessly) read through Umineko, and he could not figure anything out, even by the end of Episode 7! Needless to say, he did not enjoy the novel as much as I did, likely because he did not put any effort into interpreting the novel.

 

 

 

This is precisely what happened to me. I am not a very bright person, so my line of reasoning stopped quickly. IF I were a smart person, this might have been a masterpiece. But I am incompetent, and therefore so is the VN.

[Nyanko]

I agree it can be really confusing at somet imes, but this certainly is not an easy VN, so don't feel stupid for not understanding everything.

 

What the game wants you to understand, isn't the "mystery" in the story.

This novel is actualy a murder mystery though, greatly infuenced by And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie. The interesting thing is that it uses fantasy to explain everything. The first 4 episodes are a murder mystery that can be solved. Umineko Chiru gives you the who dunnit, why dunnit and how dunnit and all the rules you need to solve the mystery in ep 1-4 by presenting a complex fantasy story. You have to drag out the answers yourself, you have to convert the truth presented with magic into human truth. In normal murder mysteries the truth is presented to you in the end, Umineko does the same, but like I said, in fantasy style. 

 

 

[Ayana]

Tvtropes has this "Sliding Scale of Realism vs. Idealism" to classify works of media as, and Umineko is definitely much much more on the idealistic side of the scale, if not in an extreme sense. It's possibly one of the longest and most idealistic-minded VNs that's out there to date (I say "longest" because there's another VN I've read that surpasses Umineko's crazy idealism but isn't as long). Although of course, I can't be 100% sure... x_x

Generally this means that the writer will purposefully withhold any "objective" information (which only the writer understands for him/herself) for the sake of subtlety and reader-interpretation (which in turn means that the writing prevents itself from spoon-feeding the reader by being as "subjective" as possible), and/or will opt for a "best" (this is obviously very opinionated) method of information being presented that fits perfectly with the overall feel. It's all about presentation for the idealistic-minded writers, and Umineko is therefore almost all about its presentation in the same way rather than the initial content. Usually these are all just stepping stones to the true goal that is bringing across the message/s the writer likes into the reader's mind.

If you focus your attention on to the "journey" and not the "destination" in these types of works, you'll be more likely to naturally come across revelations/realizations, understanding the content and then the message. I will not say nor imply that the more realistic-minded people cannot understand it... but that they'll have a harder time shifting to this mindset to accept such things these writings bring like "skepticism" and "subjectivity".

I personally had an extremely difficult time understanding Umineko the whole way through but that's a given the first time you read something presented like this, and it's a given for anything to this high of a level. My friends who've read it also didn't understand it at all after their first time reading it, and many others I assume as well. Umineko and all other extreme idealism-infused stories need to be read multiple times to generally understand them... After all, the writer was purposefully playing on/subverting notions of "scientific" logic and common sense while only documenting what he/she considers necessary and "best" for the mindscrew-related feel and the message. Oh and, these types of works are quite rare, a minority if you will.

Since I vastly prefer these types of stories over most others, I ate it up like candy whilst reading through it the first time and proceeded to call it a masterpiece. I love Umineko so much. If it has already fit your preferences before you read it, then most likely you'll enjoy it anyways, whereas it becomes very polarizing to try to fit it in with your preferences during reading it.

[PiggiesGoMoo]

I just noticed in the first couple hours of playing, the voice acting in this is particularly good.  But I had to download it for the PC for the MangaGamer release. Are the voices absent in the Steam release too? Link is here for anyone who might read this: https://github.com/07th-mod/guide/wiki/Umineko-Getting-started

I'm using all the new sprites and backgrounds too, although I like to flip between the original and new sprites constantly.

Edited April 8, 2018 by PiggiesGoMoo

[littleshogun]

20 hours ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

I just noticed in the first couple hours of playing, the voice acting in this is particularly good.  But I had to download it for the PC for the MangaGamer release. Are the voices absent in the Steam release too? Link is here for anyone who might read this: https://github.com/07th-mod/guide/wiki/Umineko-Getting-started

I'm using all the new sprites and backgrounds too, although I like to flip between the original and new sprites constantly.

As for Mangagamer version, unfortunately their version didn't have the voice. So if you want to play Umineko with voice, then you better play the old version of that. Oh, Steam version of Umineko is also Mangagamer version of that, so basically both of Steam and Mangagamer is the same, and therefore Steam version didn't have voice as well.

Edited April 8, 2018 by littleshogun

[Overlord87]

I loved the Question Arc, I think the whole idea of presenting a murder mistery as a fantasy is brilliant, the whole red truth vs blue truth, all the mindfucks, simply great. A unique experience.

But I didn't like how the mistery was solved in the answer arc. I don't want to spoiler, but there's a big reveal that allows you to explain everything, and it simply didn't click for me. Plus, while I liked the overall theme and the characters, in the end the second half fell a bit short for me (it had its moments though).

Higurashi was the contrary for me. Started slow and sped up to a satisfying conclusions in the last two chapters.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Overlord87

[PiggiesGoMoo]

Am near the beginning of episode 3. Something about the whole plot has been bugging me very strongly.  I haven't finished the story though, so rather than any spoilers, all I want to know is if what's bugging me gets answered later on.  Or, I want to know if my logic is faulty somewhere.  Anyway, here goes:

Spoiler

Doesn't the fact that Battler saw the corpses in episode 1 mean that if he were to legitimately  deny the witch, he needs to assume that the people in episode 2-3 are not his actual family and servants, but are fake, using some form of non-magical deception? Otherwise, he has to accept that the witch used magic to revive them.  Given that, the games between Battler and Beatrice are totally pointless no matter the explanation for how the games are created.  Take these two scenarios:

1. Beatrice revived them and created the game in physical reality.  This means Beatrice's magic is real. Then there is no point to Battler trying to figure out the closed-room mysteries to "deny the witch", because she has already demonstrated her magic by creating the game itself in a physical world, with actual murders happening.

2. It's all actors pretending to be his family and servants, or it is a simulation with no real people.  In either the simulation or the actors case, the very murders themselves are in question.  Even Beatrice's words "in red" are in question, because when she says things like "Kanon died in this room", she could be talking about people dying in a simulation or movie, the same way I would talk about Romeo and Juliet dying in a movie/play, even though the actors themselves didn't die.

An "it's the afterlife" explanation doesn't work either, because that falls into the "anything goes simulation" category.  

So what gives???  Is Battler just stupid, and doesn't realize that just by playing the game, he is affirming that Beatrice used magic to create a "real" scenario where people are actually getting murdered, rather than fake-murdered in a simulation or story she devised?

 

I also think that my point is true whether or not episode 1 happened in physical reality.  Because it's evident that unless Battler is pretending, he legitimately believes that they were murdered in episode 1, so in order for Battler to be consistent, he would have to deny that they were revived in ep. 2-3.  And if he denies they were revived, the entire foundation of the game is destroyed, since the murders could be simulated.

 

As for the seven sisters torturing Battler, and him dying over and over by their hands: based on the way he responds to it, it's feasible that Battler didn't actually believe the torture was happening, and he believed he was in a dream or taking LSD. After all, he would have to believe that if he were to truly deny the witch.  So I don't see a contradiction there in the same way that I see it in the "games" Beatrice is playing with him.

EDIT:

I guess I missed a third possibility for the games:

3. Beatrice is so influential, and has an incredibly cult-like relationship to 17 people to the point where they are willing to both dress up as Battler's relatives and servants, as well as actually murder each other in elaborate closed-room scenarios.  It can't be demons, because then she would be magical, and again, there would be no point to Battler playing the game. If Battler believed this "cult" theory, then I guess he wouldn't be contradicting himself by playing the "closed-room murder" mystery games wtih Beatrice. But of course, he doesn't believe this theory, and he is apparently contradicting himself by playing with her as I pointed out.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by PiggiesGoMoo

[Homufate]

3 hours ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

Am near the beginning of episode 3. Something about the whole plot has been bugging me very strongly.  I haven't finished the story though, so rather than any spoilers, all I want to know is if what's bugging me gets answered later on.  Or, I want to know if my logic is faulty somewhere.  Anyway, here goes:

  Reveal hidden contents

Doesn't the fact that Battler saw the corpses in episode 1 mean that if he were to legitimately  deny the witch, he needs to assume that the people in episode 2-3 are not his actual family and servants, but are fake, using some form of non-magical deception? Otherwise, he has to accept that the witch used magic to revive them.  Given that, the games between Battler and Beatrice are totally pointless no matter the explanation for how the games are created.  Take these two scenarios:

1. Beatrice revived them and created the game in physical reality.  This means Beatrice's magic is real. Then there is no point to Battler trying to figure out the closed-room mysteries to "deny the witch", because she has already demonstrated her magic by creating the game itself in a physical world, with actual murders happening.

2. It's all actors pretending to be his family and servants, or it is a simulation with no real people.  In either the simulation or the actors case, the very murders themselves are in question.  Even Beatrice's words "in red" are in question, because when she says things like "Kanon died in this room", she could be talking about people dying in a simulation or movie, the same way I would talk about Romeo and Juliet dying in a movie/play, even though the actors themselves didn't die.

An "it's the afterlife" explanation doesn't work either, because that falls into the "anything goes simulation" category.  

So what gives???  Is Battler just stupid, and doesn't realize that just by playing the game, he is affirming that Beatrice used magic to create a "real" scenario where people are actually getting murdered, rather than fake-murdered in a simulation or story she devised?

 

I also think that my point is true whether or not episode 1 happened in physical reality.  Because it's evident that unless Battler is pretending, he legitimately believes that they were murdered in episode 1, so in order for Battler to be consistent, he would have to deny that they were revived in ep. 2-3.  And if he denies they were revived, the entire foundation of the game is destroyed, since the murders could be simulated.

 

As for the seven sisters torturing Battler, and him dying over and over by their hands: based on the way he responds to it, it's feasible that Battler didn't actually believe the torture was happening, and he believed he was in a dream or taking LSD. After all, he would have to believe that if he were to truly deny the witch.  So I don't see a contradiction there in the same way that I see it in the "games" Beatrice is playing with him.

EDIT:

I guess I missed a third possibility for the games:

3. Beatrice is so influential, and has an incredibly cult-like relationship to 17 people to the point where they are willing to both dress up as Battler's relatives and servants, as well as actually murder each other in elaborate closed-room scenarios.  It can't be demons, because then she would be magical, and again, there would be no point to Battler playing the game. If Battler believed this "cult" theory, then I guess he wouldn't be contradicting himself by playing the "closed-room murder" mystery games wtih Beatrice. But of course, he doesn't believe this theory, and he is apparently contradicting himself by playing with her as I pointed out.

 

 

Most of that will be easier to understand once you keep read through the story. For short explanation with least spoiler for what would happen later in story as much as possible (still a bit spoil so if it not bother you not much, you better to read this after complete the whole story)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Battler denied that the whole Rokkenjima murder could be happened by human not magic in real world. There's difference between meta world and real world, he didn't deny that magic doesn't exist in meta world but rather real world. The game/kakera (parallel world) that presented was alternated by Beatrice and executed as fantasy scenario. Battler have to proof to that the scenario could works by mystery genre without fantasy element. With that in mind, his point that Rokkenjima murder could be happened by human still stand. I's a bit break the 4th wall if that make you understand it any better.

2. Probably neither but simulation would be closer. The characters that presented in the gameboard were piece but that doesn't change that they're real people and couldn't act out of characters. There's two types of red truth, one is the type that only refer to the scenario in their respective episodes and the other type that refer to the whole Umineko story. In your case of ep 3 it's rather the former. Rokkenjima murder DID already happened so technically Battler and his family are already death in real world but from Meta Battler perspective in the context of story if he accept that Rokkenjima murder happened by witches not human then Beatrice would be able to play with his family with her scenario as much as she want and she would really be the cause of Rokkenjima murder since the most anti-fantasy mind person in Ushiromiyas accepted her to exist.

Keep in mind that Umineko is the game between Ryukishi and readers, Battler while have his own actual personality is the transition of readers who have to believed that Rokkenjima murder could be happened by human while antagonist aka Beatrice on the other hand would denies that it could only be happened by magic rather than human. Basically anti-fantasy vs. anti-mystery. Realistically Battler point is the truth (anti-fantasy) but the problem is "howdunnit" which he have to explained to Beatrice's alternated fantasy scenario that could be happened without fantasy element. 

3. The same with my #1 and #2 explanation. If you keep read through. A lot of things will be easier to understand and make more sense.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Homufate

[Dreamysyu]

3 hours ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

Am near the beginning of episode 3. Something about the whole plot has been bugging me very strongly.  I haven't finished the story though, so rather than any spoilers, all I want to know is if what's bugging me gets answered later on.  Or, I want to know if my logic is faulty somewhere.  Anyway, here goes:

  Hide contents

Doesn't the fact that Battler saw the corpses in episode 1 mean that if he were to legitimately  deny the witch, he needs to assume that the people in episode 2-3 are not his actual family and servants, but are fake, using some form of non-magical deception? Otherwise, he has to accept that the witch used magic to revive them.  Given that, the games between Battler and Beatrice are totally pointless no matter the explanation for how the games are created.  Take these two scenarios:

1. Beatrice revived them and created the game in physical reality.  This means Beatrice's magic is real. Then there is no point to Battler trying to figure out the closed-room mysteries to "deny the witch", because she has already demonstrated her magic by creating the game itself in a physical world, with actual murders happening.

2. It's all actors pretending to be his family and servants, or it is a simulation with no real people.  In either the simulation or the actors case, the very murders themselves are in question.  Even Beatrice's words "in red" are in question, because when she says things like "Kanon died in this room", she could be talking about people dying in a simulation or movie, the same way I would talk about Romeo and Juliet dying in a movie/play, even though the actors themselves didn't die.

An "it's the afterlife" explanation doesn't work either, because that falls into the "anything goes simulation" category.  

So what gives???  Is Battler just stupid, and doesn't realize that just by playing the game, he is affirming that Beatrice used magic to create a "real" scenario where people are actually getting murdered, rather than fake-murdered in a simulation or story she devised?

 

I also think that my point is true whether or not episode 1 happened in physical reality.  Because it's evident that unless Battler is pretending, he legitimately believes that they were murdered in episode 1, so in order for Battler to be consistent, he would have to deny that they were revived in ep. 2-3.  And if he denies they were revived, the entire foundation of the game is destroyed, since the murders could be simulated.

 

As for the seven sisters torturing Battler, and him dying over and over by their hands: based on the way he responds to it, it's feasible that Battler didn't actually believe the torture was happening, and he believed he was in a dream or taking LSD. After all, he would have to believe that if he were to truly deny the witch.  So I don't see a contradiction there in the same way that I see it in the "games" Beatrice is playing with him.

EDIT:

I guess I missed a third possibility for the games:

3. Beatrice is so influential, and has an incredibly cult-like relationship to 17 people to the point where they are willing to both dress up as Battler's relatives and servants, as well as actually murder each other in elaborate closed-room scenarios.  It can't be demons, because then she would be magical, and again, there would be no point to Battler playing the game. If Battler believed this "cult" theory, then I guess he wouldn't be contradicting himself by playing the "closed-room murder" mystery games wtih Beatrice. But of course, he doesn't believe this theory, and he is apparently contradicting himself by playing with her as I pointed out.

 

To be honest, I don't think it's possible to explain these things and say completely spoiler-free, so I won't. I'd say, just keep reading. It all makes sense after you understand the logic of Umineko story, but you're supposed to be confused at this point.

[PiggiesGoMoo]

20 hours ago, Homufate said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Most of that will be easier to understand once you keep read through the story. For short explanation with least spoiler for what would happen later in story as much as possible (still a bit spoil so if it not bother you not much, you better to read this after complete the whole story)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Battler denied that the whole Rokkenjima murder could be happened by human not magic in real world. There's difference between meta world and real world, he didn't deny that magic doesn't exist in meta world but rather real world. The game/kakera (parallel world) that presented was alternated by Beatrice and executed as fantasy scenario. Battler have to proof to that the scenario could works by mystery genre without fantasy element. With that in mind, his point that Rokkenjima murder could be happened by human still stand. I's a bit break the 4th wall if that make you understand it any better.

2. Probably neither but simulation would be closer. The characters that presented in the gameboard were piece but that doesn't change that they're real people and couldn't act out of characters. There's two types of red truth, one is the type that only refer to the scenario in their respective episodes and the other type that refer to the whole Umineko story. In your case of ep 3 it's rather the former. Rokkenjima murder DID already happened so technically Battler and his family are already death in real world but from Meta Battler perspective in the context of story if he accept that Rokkenjima murder happened by witches not human then Beatrice would be able to play with his family with her scenario as much as she want and she would really be the cause of Rokkenjima murder since the most anti-fantasy mind person in Ushiromiyas accepted her to exist.

Keep in mind that Umineko is the game between Ryukishi and readers, Battler while have his own actual personality is the transition of readers who have to believed that Rokkenjima murder could be happened by human while antagonist aka Beatrice on the other hand would denies that it could only be happened by magic rather than human. Basically anti-fantasy vs. anti-mystery. Realistically Battler point is the truth (anti-fantasy) but the problem is "howdunnit" which he have to explained to Beatrice's alternated fantasy scenario that could be happened without fantasy element. 

3. The same with my #1 and #2 explanation. If you keep read through. A lot of things will be easier to understand and make more sense.

I'll read that spoilery bit later on, thanks for the response.

[PiggiesGoMoo]

Finished Umineko. I ended up ditching the VN near the end of episode 7 for the manga, because I was losing patience and had a lack of emotional investment in the story... not that I didn't enjoy many parts in the story. I heard that the manga has more plot points answered.  I also heard that the extra information that the manga reveals is canon, as Ryukishi07 himself confirmed. I didn't want a wishy-washy "figure it out yourself" ending for a visual novel that took me weeks to read, so I had to read the manga. 

I was really surprised by the manga because it felt like an improvement from the VN in many ways.  Much more dramatic, with crazy character expressions and illustrations.  The only thing missing was the music, and color. In hindsight, maybe I would have enjoyed the story of Umineko more had I read the manga.   The ending is very satisfying and surprising.

Regardless of the format, there are some things that bother me about the story.  I felt much less tension and investment in the characters than I usually do for a serious story like this.  That's certainly true compared to Higurashi. Higurashi had piss-your-pants levels of tension, at least for me.  I was sweating like crazy while reading the first episodes of Higurashi.  That didn't happen once while reading Umineko, and I don't think this lack of thrill is because I'm getting burned out by VNs, or even my high expectations. I think it's because of the nature of the plot of Umineko:

Spoiler

Given the "meta" element of the plot is revealed very early on (right after episode 1), the "so what?" factor is very strong.  Once I learned that each episode is going to be Beato's game to outwit Battler, the events that happened in the next  Beato "games" were much less emotional to me.  Why should I care about what happens to the characters if Beato is just making up stories based on a real event?  As far as I'm considered, the characters depicted in Beato's games are just reenactment mannequins, with Beato's twist on the reenactment.  It puts you in the strange position where you have to question literally everything you see on screen. You watch people laugh, cry, and get murdered, and lots of crazy magical fights, but none of that matters. The only thing you're thinking is: "Ok, what's Beato's angle? What is being hidden here?"  I've read other VNs that hide real events behind fake hallucinations, but it's totally different when you know that a meta-character is deliberately doing this to fool you.

This really hit home in episode 2, which is very early on in the VN. You see all sorts of magical craziness that you know is probably not real, and that takes away from caring about what's happening. Why should I care if imaginary Kanon defeats imaginary demon bulls with magical powers that you know are only there to try to mislead you?  There are hours and hours of this type of content throughout the story.  This lowered tension and emotional investment a lot for me. 

We know that people died on the island. So seeing them die again doesn't leave much of an impression, except in the "why is Beato doing this over and over"?

Now you might make a philosophical argument against my complaint here. That is, "all characters in stories are 'mannequins' to the author's control, so why is it any different when Beato does it within the game? The author might try to mislead you as well."  The difference is that the reader is voluntary engaging in suspension of disbelief to enjoy the story, and has an unspoken "agreement" with the author that there is a real story happening, and that story is totally separate from the author, even if there are plot twists. In contrast, if you find out that what you are reading is just being controlled by a meta character, then everything you see is only meaningful insofar as to how it relates to the meta-character.

E.g. I'm not thinking "wow Shannon and George are such a cute couple" during their beginning date in episode 2. I'm thinking " Why would Beato show this? Why did Shannon destroy that mirror? What does that represent?"  To the story's credit, the answer to that question is very clever. Like I said, the ending to the story is undoubtedly good. It's just that there are long portions of the story that are tedious for the reasons I've given. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think meta plots and meta characters are inherently bad. I just don't like it when the majority of the story is knowingly a farce created by meta characters.  Most of the other VNs with meta-characters that I've read don't do this as egregiously as Umineko. 

I think it's interesting to compare Doki Doki Literature club and Umineko (Doki Doki spoilers):

Spoiler

In my view Doki Doki Literature Club has the same "meta" problem as Umineko, except that Monika actually "owns up to it". As mediocre as I thought Doki Doki was, at least an interesting point was made about meta characters.  Since you know that Monika is manipulating the characters, literally rewriting their "files" in the same way that Beato uses "pieces" in her game, why should you care about any of the characters except Monika? And that is EXACTLY what she tells you. What was the point of doing the other club members routes, if they are essentially bots that she is directly controlling? 

You can apply Monika's logic to Umineko. Why should I have attachment to the tragic events in Beato's games, since I know she is the puppet-master trying to crush Battler's will?

That said, there is one major difference here.  The Rokkenjima massacre was an actual event that happened, but Beato's "games" don't accurately represent how everything happened.  Whereas with Monika, there is nothing "real" about anything except Monika.

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by PiggiesGoMoo