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Changing views of localization


Clephas

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Yay, Clephas is contributing to a controversial topic in his blog!  *listens for the hisses and boos of his loving public*

More seriously, I'm not out to bash fantranslators, localization companies, or anyone else involved with the process.  I've been on both sides (consumer and producer) and I can honestly say that I can see all four sides of the argument (the producer side, the negative consumer side, the neutral consumer side, and the positive consumer side).

The Positive Consumer

Based on my personal experience (beginning with jrpgs in the nineties), most people begin in this stage.  Honestly, I didn't know enough to figure out when things were badly translated, and as long as the lines weren't too out there (spoony bard, lol), it never really got to me.  There are plenty of people out here who remain in this stage forever, never taking interest one way or the other in the translation aspects of things... and that is perfectly natural.  Most Americans (if not people from other countries) are essentially linguistic bigots, and as a result, they won't care if things are wrong as long as they can't tell just by playing a game, reading a book, or enjoying an anime or film.

The Negative Consumer

Most people with at least some knowledge of Japanese end up in this stage at some point.  The reasons are manifold, but the biggest one is the 'literalist disease'.  Almost everyone who gets involved with translation or knows enough Japanese to nitpick is under a peculiar delusion... that 'Literal Japanese to English translation isn't an oxymoron'.  Unfortunately for their delusions, my personal experience and the experience of many others does not bear this particular one out. 

Literalist translation is a delusion born of a misapprehension of the Rosetta Stone concept... basically because we can generally match up most words with their equivalents in our own languages given a decent reference point, that perfect translations are both possible and should be provided without hesitation by mechanical translators (often literally).  However, this ignores two major issues... the cultural basis for the formation of modern language's concepts and the difference in how the language is structured (grammar in other words). 

This isn't the only reason for ending up in this stage... some people are in it because it makes them feel superior or they like trolling 'lesser beings' (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about).  Others simply disagree with the way the translation is handled or the usage of censorship.  There are innumerable reasons for ending up in this stage, and that is the reason why it is the single largest one in the 'experienced' community.

The Neutral Consumer

This is the smallest grouping... mostly because it pretty much demands that you have resolved to stop caring one way or the other about localization quality.  The most common reason to end up here is because you can play VNs, watch anime, and read manga/LNs without a localization, so the concept becomes irrelevant (or at least of less interest) to you.  Another is that you get tired of being trolled (or trolling yourself) and decide to shut off your emotions about it.  Last of all are the people who just want to 'spread the word' and don't really care about quality issues (people who are just happy VNs are getting localized).  Since a lot of this group don't even buy localizations except to 'support the cause', this group has a lot less invested in the arguments, overall.

The Producer

... need I mention that being on this side sucks?  No matter how good a job you do, you get bashed by someone, and inevitably someone is going to decide to nitpick every one of your word choices.  Literalists will hate you for not doing exactly what they want, generalists will hate you for picking obscure/dead words from actual literary English (as opposed to spoken English) because the concepts involved are dead in modern English, and everyone else will hate you for censorship or because you are too slow. 

While you get combative people or apologetic people from this side every once in a while, most just stop paying attention to the noise, for the sake of their mental health. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

Hmm... I wonder which fits me more? Positive or Neutral?
I'd say Positive because I see myself as someone who likes everything, but I don't know.

It is hard to say... the line between neutral and positive is pretty much composed of ignorance.  If you are ignorant of localization issues, you don't have a reason to care in the first place.  Neutrals are more 'I know but I don't care that much' types. 

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2 minutes ago, Clephas said:

It is hard to say... the line between neutral and positive is pretty much composed of ignorance.  If you are ignorant of localization issues, you don't have a reason to care in the first place.  Neutrals are more 'I know but I don't care that much' types. 

Going by these standards then I'm probably Neutral in general, yeah...

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However, this ignores two major issues... the cultural basis for the formation of modern language's concepts and the difference in how the language is structured (grammar in other words). 

Some people want the "original" Japanese cultural experience, if not the grammar.  I can definitely see the argument against using American slang in English localizations, for example.  If you play Japanese games to escape from the pervasive influence of American pop culture, that's the last thing you want to see in your VNs.

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1 hour ago, sanahtlig said:

 

 

Some people want the "original" Japanese cultural experience, if not the grammar.  I can definitely see the argument against using American slang in English localizations, for example.  If you play Japanese games to escape from the pervasive influence of American pop culture, that's the last thing you want to see in your VNs.

As a rule, avoiding pop culture references and slang is a good idea.  One thing I don't like is when someone goes off and searches for an equivalent pop culture reference to a Japanese pop culture reference and utterly screws it up... 

Also, Japanese usage of foul language is a lot more mild than in America... there is a much more limited range of words, and some of them are borrowed from English or other language, because Japan didn't have them in the first place, lol.  Leftovers from an era when saying the wrong thing to a person above your social status could result in beheading or forced suicide, most likely...

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I would like to express my opinion regarding all of the four sides you listed:
 

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The Positive Consumer

This is the starting point for obvious reasons. The real issue is that most people stop at this point, which can impact an official localization in many ways (something I get in depth during the negative consumer part).

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The Negative Consumer

This is a difficult beast to talk about, at least for me. That's because i'm both a somewhat part of this side, but mainly because i'm not a native english speaker. As always, liiteral translations, can't exist as a whole; if anything, I can understand a translation project which aim to be as close to the original script as possible, which can end up with either:

a) a sloppy translation which can be somewhat hard to follow or feel too much unnatural;

b) a translation which while keeping literal at its roots, allows edits in order to facilitate reading, although it rarely happens.

Now here comes the most difficult part (and the reason for which not being a native english speaker could impact me differently): if there is one thing that I noticed in the past 15 years of playing games (from jrpg, to vns etc), rather than a mere translation/localization, scripts are heavily edited or worse, simplified in such a way that makes me question how could the translator go that far.

One of the worst example I can recall right now is from a jrpg PSP game called "dragoneer's aria" in which at a certain point in the main plot, the mc in the japanese script reveal that he has strong feelings for the main heroine, although he is reluctant from saying that directly, while in the english script he outright says that he loves her.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg for that and other games. I also noticed that localization quality worsened toward the years (although that could be caused by the change in the gaming industry, starting from not being a niche thing anymore, to the increase cost of developing games).

Also, we have some history with bad localization (like the neptunia franchise, which is widely know for being ruined with meme and scripts wrote from scratch, you can find some example here and here .

You see, as an aspirant translator, I really can't comprehend why a translator should (or COULD in the first place) make changes to characters/backstory/whatever. Localization should imply making a game understandable by the target audience, NOT adding/editing/deleting something with your personal taste (by your i mean the translator of the project).

We also have a bad time with nintendo localizations, due to the huge censorship and again, edit issues, so I can't really blame the negative consumer.

Personally I hate to purchase a game and not being able to switch to japanese language (i mean interface other than voices), which is a rampant problem with STEAM.
 

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The Neutral Consumer

I don't have much to add to this, but can't be part of it as I really can't accept most of the localizations out there.

 

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The Producer

Here not much is left from what you said. No matter what you do, people will always blame you for something.

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As a rule, avoiding pop culture references and slang is a good idea.  One thing I don't like is when someone goes off and searches for an equivalent pop culture reference to a Japanese pop culture reference and utterly screws it up... 

Also, Japanese usage of foul language is a lot more mild than in America... there is a much more limited range of words, and some of them are borrowed from English or other language, because Japan didn't have them in the first place, lol.  Leftovers from an era when saying the wrong thing to a person above your social status could result in beheading or forced suicide, most likely...

Honestly, I'm tired of hearing foul language everywhere, and I find it a nuisance when is so overused, while the original script doesn't have much of it in the first place...

I saw cases in which こいつ got translated into "son of a b****", while there are more valid and less rude alternatives.

Edited by きょうすけ
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Well each side surely did have their own supporter, so I guess to each of their own. That said, yes I realized that there's a lot of problem within VN localization. But I also think that perhaps it'll be better if we as the consumer should be focused on the story, because I'm afraid that if we focused on the translation problem we might not be able to enjoy the localized VNs. In short, I think I'm goes with the neutral here even if I'm managed to learn Japanese, because if I'm go with positive then it mean that I'm ignorant with Flyable Heart translation problem, while if I'm going with negative then it mean that I might become too nitpicky with the English in any translated VNs. Keep in mind that it was just my opinion here, so I may be wrong on this.

Edited by littleshogun
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