Jump to content
  • entries
    51
  • comments
    93
  • views
    10547

Permit Me a Rant on the Term "Overrated"


Mr Poltroon

1782 views

This will actually be far too brief to make a blog post around, but alas...

What is "overrated"? Many things, apparently, but so far as I can tell the word itself is used to describe something that too many people like, or that is well liked for little reason.
This is an inherently subjective word. Infuriatingly so. At its most basic, it means "too many people have a different opinion than mine", which if phrased that way means nothing. Yet so many people employ the word. There is no such thing as "other people like X too much". It is precisely because people have different opinions that some thing's are successes and others are not, and if something is a success, then it is, for that very reason, not overrated -- if people like something, that something must've done something to deserve it, whether you understand what that is or not, because thousands of people don't like something "just because". And I suppose that's just where the issue lies. Once again, people have different opinions. It's that simple.

Such a shame it doesn't stop me from hating the word. It has no purpose. It's obvious and always implied whenever anyone has an opinion, and it only serves to bring a bad connotation and disagree with other peoples' opinions. "Underrated" at least has a purpose (in this context. Other contexts, more similar to "underestimate" are a different, unrelated, story); not to say people don't "like something enough" or people "dislike something too much", which is also another way to spell "too many people have a different opinion from mine", but to say that not enough people know of a particular thing. "Not enough people know about X", or "Not enough people gave X a chance".

You can use "overrated" properly. "The importance of X is overrated" can be used to describe situations where misinformation is popularly spread. But therein lies the key. Using it in "subjective" matters, in matters of opinion, means little. It's a way of complaining that other people have different opinions. And I dislike that, so I complain about it on forums online.

 

This post was sponsored by that thread asking if CLANNAD deserves its popularity or if it's overrated. I'd say when something makes you ask if it is "overrated", that's because it is popular to a point where it must have done some things the proletariat likes, and therefore can't be overrated.
Of course, that doesn't remove the merit of discussing what is "well done" or "badly done" according to other people.
 

16 Comments


Recommended Comments

12 minutes ago, Darklord Rooke said:

Hmmm, does this mean you do think the Ace Attorney series is massively overrated or have I just misinterpreted your post? :P 

I think my point of view is that something can't be "overrated" in that sense.
It's especially not the case because popular opinion is that it's good, and that's an opinion that I share.

Link to comment

I'm confused: if it's okay to say something is "underrated' with the intended meaning that not enough people appreciate it for the quality one perceives it to have (that part about appreciating and quality are inseparable from the definition of "underrated," BTW; if you were trying to drop that part of the definition, then I think you're simply incorrectly redefining the word to "not well-known," which in practice isn't what people actually mean when they use it), why is it not okay to call something else "overrated" with the intended meaning that too many people appreciate it for the quality one perceives it to have?

I'm not saying the word "overrated" isn't overused (which it certainly is) or incorrectly used (which it probably also is); I'm just saying that the statement "Sword Art Online is overrated" is a perfectly rational thing for me to say. Moreover, to be clear, I agree with you that I'm expressing an opinion when I do that; it's not some factual statement. Actually trying to argue over whether or not something is "overrated" would be pretty silly. But having a discussion wherein various people express whether they think something is overrated doesn't really seem fundamentally problematic to me (if arguably a little uninteresting, unless there's further elaboration on why people perceive it that way, and also perhaps arguably somewhat contradictory, since if everybody thought something was overrated, it would seem that, by definition, at least some of them were demonstrably factually wrong).

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

I'm confused: if it's okay to say something is "underrated' with the intended meaning that not enough people appreciate it for the quality one perceives it to have (that part about appreciating and quality are inseparable from the definition of "underrated," BTW; if you were trying to drop that part of the definition, then I think you're simply incorrectly redefining the word to "not well-known," which in practice isn't what people actually mean when they use it), why is it not okay to call something else "overrated" with the intended meaning that too many people appreciate it for the quality one perceives it to have?

I maintain what I said. Actual usage of "underrated" tends to stick to things that are simply not well known. Usage that is meant to say "Only 7/10? This is totally underrated!" is much more limited. This, of course, is based on my personal experiences of where I've seen them used.
So to reiterate, usage of "underrated" does not typically infuriate me because when I see it used, it's to claim too few people know about it, or tried it out. Therefore, I am not saying that underrated doesn't mean what it does, I am saying that because I hardly ever see people using it the way I don't like, I don't mind the word. On the other hand, it's incredibly rare to see someone use "overrated" in a way that's not simply saying "I don't see why people like this".

18 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

I'm not saying the word "overrated" isn't overused (which it certainly is) or incorrectly used (which it probably also is); I'm just saying that the statement "Sword Art Online is overrated" is a perfectly rational thing for me to say. Moreover, to be clear, I agree with you that I'm expressing an opinion when I do that; it's not some factual statement. Actually trying to argue over whether or not something is "overrated" would be pretty silly. But having a discussion wherein various people express whether they think something is overrated doesn't really seem fundamentally problematic to me (if arguably a little uninteresting, unless there's further elaboration on why people perceive it that way, and also perhaps arguably somewhat contradictory, since if everybody thought something was overrated, it would seem that, by definition, at least some of them were demonstrably factually wrong).

I never said my hate was quite rational. Most of it is just me disliking contrarians and party-poopers.
It's the difference between saying "I don't like X", which is clearly structured like an opinion, and "X is overrated", which is structured like a fact, and a ridiculous thing to say, at that. I also have extreme problems with "X is crap" and such. It's an issue with the way people say things, and how often they say it, more than the word itself.

This is why I'll never complain at anyone directly for using it. I won't constrict anyone's way of expressing themselves without a better reason than me just not liking it, but the fact remains that the way people phrase things as if they were facts bothers me (only if they're negative, at that) to no end, and "overrated" is one of the worst offenders, prompting my rant.

Unlike "X is bad", "X is overrated" is a more direct judgement on people.
X is bad -> there are flaws ->  which implies people who like it are wrong  VS  X is overrated -> other people are wrong -> because there are flaws
It's the difference between "This piece of art is terrible, (why do you like it?)" and "You are wrong for liking this piece of art."; One doesn't cast an immediate judgement on other people's opinions*, and the other does just that.
Again, not exactly a rational thing, but even if "I think X is overrated" is used, the whole "judging other people" remains, even as an opinion. It's a troublesome word I just don't like.

*Something I heavily dislike. Who am I to impose my thoughts on others? I should state my opinion and have others comprehend it, and I should try to comprehend theirs. Discourse does not come from blindly denying what one does not agree with, or taking some sort of imaginary high-ground. And the first step to discourse is certainly not "All those people are wrong for liking this".

Another issue is that when somebody says something is overrated, other kindred souls flock, forming a vocal majority and making the whole thing quite ridiculous, because a majority cannot ever claim something is overrated, by its very definition.

 

I know I have some extreme opinions about the way people communicate. I know I'm an idealist, and also a hypocrite, but these remain my honest thoughts, fuelled by emotion. If arguments are to be had, let them be civil an constructive, without hate. Mindless praise doesn't need such limiters, as it hurts no one, unlike mindless bashing.

Link to comment

But what if you don't want to have no conversation, but just want to look cool to your likeminded buddies, whoever they may be? Then giving reasons for your opinion would be an inefficient strategy because people might like things for other reasons than you do, so you'd be different. Uncool! Clearly the best option is to shit on things as vaguely as possible so you don't have to justify yourself, because god knows you're neither confident enough to logically defend your opinion nor bothered enough to actually articulate it in such a fashion.

#sheeple

(I disagree with you on underrated, though you have a point as I have seen it used both ways in a way that is somewhat above the barber's estimation. Perhaps he is using a more society-wide estimate, while we are using something biased by like 2-3 popular topics in the community created by people with poor diction?)

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, Zakamutt said:

But what if you don't want to have no conversation, but just want to look cool to your likeminded buddies, whoever they may be? Then giving reasons for your opinion would be an inefficient strategy because people might like things for other reasons than you do, so you'd be different. Uncool! Clearly the best option is to shit on things as vaguely as possible so you don't have to justify yourself, because god knows you're neither confident enough to logically defend your opinion nor bothered enough to actually articulate it in such a fashion.

#sheeple

(I disagree with you on underrated, though you have a point as I have seen it used both ways in a way that is somewhat above the barber's estimation. Perhaps he is using a more society-wide estimate, while we are using something biased by like 2-3 popular topics in the community created by people with poor diction?)

Sadly, I have no buddies, so that's entirely irrelevant for me, leading to this opinion of mine.

As for underrated, I think it's more a case of generalisation than it is of poor diction. The meaning "not enough people like it" ends up pretty much meaning "not enough people know about it" in most cases. Or at least, that's the impression it gives. I'd elaborate a bit, but I want to sleep, so, my sincerest regrets.

(Note: I have a terrible tendency for writing things out of order. It happened in the blog itself, in my previous post, and it's happening now. For instance, I'm starting with my last paragraph, and I quite literally mean this one, which will be followed by the previous, and then finally the first one.)

Link to comment
Quote

Overrated (adj.) - Given an undue amount of credit for quality or merit in a field; not necessarily related to popularity.

This whole blog post is overrated :vanilla:

32 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

Mindless praise doesn't need such limiters, as it hurts no one, unlike mindless bashing.

In fact, mindless praise hurts a lot more than mindless bashing. Latter can be ignored, former is a road fraught with lies, that leads to nowhere.

Link to comment

@narc
Considering the post argues that "undue" is a vacuous concept when it comes to opinion, quoting the dictionary ain't going to get you very far.

Mindless bashing and mindless praise both seem like they have damaging effects to me. It is possible that you are more thick-skinned than average and the current attitudes are not good for people less so.

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Narcosis said:

In fact, mindless praise hurts a lot more than mindless bashing. Latter can be ignored, former is a road fraught with lies, that leads to nowhere.

Joy? :wafuu:

Please elaborate on why mindless praise is bad, keeping in mind that "mindless" inherently means that the person is in no way attempting to think critically. This goes for mindless bashing as well, except I perceive the latter as being capable of hurting people for very little reason and gain.
And why can't mindless praise be ignored, much like bashing?
I'd also further ask what's the issue with roads fraught with lies, but that's going off on a bit of a tangent and I already know people generally disagree with me on this count.

9 hours ago, Zakamutt said:

Mindless bashing and mindless praise both seem like they have damaging effects to me. It is possible that you are more thick-skinned than average and the current attitudes are not good for people less so.

I don't see what you mean by this. I assume you're talking to Narcosis, and in that case, I'll simply ask you to elaborate on why mindless praise is damaging, or in what way.

Link to comment

The problem with mindless praise is that it is ineffective at making creators' works better as it does not point out what made the work good in the first place. I imagine Narcosis, an aspiring salty vn writer, is also thinking about the "hugbox" effect that exists in certain places to shield creators from any criticism - considering there is or at least was at some point a specific badge to put in your profile if you want honest criticism of your work at Lemmasoft, it's not like his fears are entirely unwarranted.

It's a p. decent mirror with the problem of mindless bashing not helping you make your work better by pointing out what was bad.

It's not like either has no information content; one tells you to stop making things in your current fashion, another tells you to continue in similar fashion. However, they would appear suboptimal from a creator's perspective.

Outside of a creator's perspective, mindlessness on either side does not promote thoughtful discussion or trying to understand people that think different to you, and instead encourages forming groups around liking or not liking something. This is certainly one way of enjoying fiction, but not everyone appreciates it very much - not to mention polarization is where nuance, oh sweet nuance, goes right out the picture. We could use less of it, wherever we are.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Mr Poltroon said:

Please elaborate on why mindless praise is bad, keeping in mind that "mindless" inherently means that the person is in no way attempting to think critically. This goes for mindless bashing as well, except I perceive the latter as being capable of hurting people for very little reason and gain.
And why can't mindless praise be ignored, much like bashing.

From a creator's point of view, if they accept mindless criticism they'll be driven to improve their work even if they got no meaningful information from the criticism. If they accept mindless praise they'll be of the impression that they don't need to improve. Thus mindless praise leads to stagnation from a creator's point of view. Stagnation is bad, m'kay :P 

From a consumer's point of view ... I don't see any ill effects from mindless praise or criticism really.

Link to comment

Hi Narcosis-sama, i've read some of your post related to eroge and they are some great Eroge. i really like Cat Girl (Kitsune), and i currently stick for Tenkiame and just download it for gigas size. but unfortunately my Japanese is really bad T_T and i can't understand the Game well, could you help me translated it? or could you help me is there any translation tool or maybe a previous English patch? help please Narcosis-sama T_T

 

and also nice to meet you Narcosis-sama and everybody.

Link to comment
20 hours ago, okawirey said:

Hi Narcosis-sama, i've read some of your post related to eroge and they are some great Eroge. i really like Cat Girl (Kitsune), and i currently stick for Tenkiame and just download it for gigas size. but unfortunately my Japanese is really bad T_T and i can't understand the Game well, could you help me translated it? or could you help me is there any translation tool or maybe a previous English patch? help please Narcosis-sama T_T

 

and also nice to meet you Narcosis-sama and everybody.

anyone? T_T

Link to comment
Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...