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How Adorable Heroines are now just Generic


Clephas

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How many of you started reading VNs, manga, or watching anime solely because the girls were so adorable?  I wasn't one of those (I began with Record of Lodoss War, lol), but Ai Yori Aoshi and Love Hina introduced me to the concept of the 'moe-heroine'.  Whether it was their way of speaking, their looks, or their attitude, moe heroines became an integral part of the otaku experience at some point (well, the male-oriented one anyway), and I actually don't have any problems with that.  I have lots of fond memories of moe-heroines (since almost all VN heroines and anime heroines nowadays are done like this, to one degree or another).

However, as I've dug deeper and deeper into the VN universe (I realized this with anime long ago) I came to realize... all the heroines were beginning to melt together into one big moe blob inside my back-brain.  This is because very few heroines stand out enough to remain distinct in my mind from all the other, similar heroines inside my brain. 

Understand, I never really experienced the 'blob of moe heroines' phenomenon until the last five years or so... first with anime, then (two years ago) with VNs.  As a result, it is harder and harder to find 'standard' heroines interesting in and of themselves... their situation and setting have to be interesting enough to keep me from abandoning them emotionally. 

Do you want to know how many heroines remain distinct in my brain from the last three years of playing VNs?  Just thirty-three... and that is from well over seven hundred heroines whose routes I've completed in that time.  Frankly, even if I find an archetypical heroine interesting for a single playthrough, it is a rare heroine who makes an impression strong enough to retain her individuality in the collective VN memory of my under-psyche. 

I once mentioned this to a newbie VN-player (naturally a moe-gamer) and he essentially blasted me about how I was a blasphemer against the pure love of 2D... 

My response was, quite naturally, explosive laughter which I didn't bother to put into text. 

How many people do you actually remember in real life as a distinct human being without meeting them every day (or at least with some frequency)?  Even if you see 2D as a real world, do you seriously think someone who has gone so far down the road of the VN otaku as I and some others in the community have to remember every single heroine they've encountered? 

I'm fortunate.  I have a natural gift for storing episode memory, so if I start replaying a VN, I generally remember the heroines and their paths almost immediately.  However, expecting me to remember yet another tsundere osananajimi amongst hundreds of others off the top of my head after a year is fundamentally ridiculous, in my opinion (real example... also one of the two most common archetypes, along with the deredere osananajimi). 

This doesn't necessarily mean the VN in question is bad... it just means the heroine is one I've seen dozens of times before, placed in different situations with a different appearance.  Some of the heroines I forget until I'm reminded about are from truly wonderful VNs... but that has absolutely no effect on whether I can remember them without some serious effort, lol.

For my fellow vets... are you any different?

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Same thing here, though I haven't played quite as many VNs as you. 

My memory is also weak in general, which only serves to make things worse. 

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 I don't play enough VN's, particularly moe/charages to make characters blur into each other. As long as some part of the game (characters, routes, plots) isn't formulaic I can generally remember all the heroines.

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I haven't played too many VNs yet, so this is not an issue for me right now, but it makes sense.

It doesn't have to be moe heroines, I mean every character ever made ususally has some resemblance to another, be it visually or by other characteristics. It's only natural that once you have seen hundreds if not thousands of these characters, that they start to blend into each other. (To be honest, if it doesn't happen when you have played so many different games, I'd be quite impressed by your memory.)

If you add in a factor where you generally tend to dislike or pay less attention to a certain archetype, then it makes even more sense that you eventually start forgetting some of those characters.

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"And a lot of rock ‘n’ roll songs sound alike. Ask Chuck Berry." - Tom Petty when asked about the similar sound of Red Hot Chili Pepper's "Dani California" to his "Mary Jane's Last Dance."

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I think it would make sense that the more you get into a medium the more you start noticing its patterns and tropes and how hard it is to find something as original as when you first discovered it.

I think this goes beyond the scope of heroines, pretty much every medium has that generic blob of things you start identifying the more you get into it.

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2 hours ago, Nosebleed said:

I think it would make sense that the more you get into a medium the more you start noticing its patterns and tropes and how hard it is to find something as original as when you first discovered it.

I think this goes beyond the scope of heroines, pretty much every medium has that generic blob of things you start identifying the more you get into it.

 

2 hours ago, Valmore said:

"And a lot of rock ‘n’ roll songs sound alike. Ask Chuck Berry." - Tom Petty when asked about the similar sound of Red Hot Chili Pepper's "Dani California" to his "Mary Jane's Last Dance."

:makina:

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What Nosebleed wrote, although there's a grain of truth in what you wrote as well.

It's mainly because modern fiction is built from tropes and stereotypes, not exactly because their authors have something to share; plain pursuit for money. That's the price you pay for self-centered fandom, where new generations of writers grow up solely on the works of their predecessors. Just like with inbreeding, quality slowly starts to detoriate with each generation, when those people have no other experience outside the community, they are a part of.

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To be honest, not at this moment. Although about your case was came from side effect for playing too much VN (Maybe). But I also realize that many moege was had same kind of character archetype, and maybe because this kind of character could be sell well to the new otaku out there. Also maybe there is some kind of proverb like if it's not broken, why fix it ie if the same type heroine still created money, why not keep making the game with them. Sorry if my word didn't came well here.

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Desensitizing from overexposure and oversaturation happens with literally everything in your life from getting sick of your once favorite food because you ate it too much to this adorable heroines becoming generic phenomenon you speak of.

But yes, I used to (errr, still am I guess) be a hardcore diehard kyaa tsun-tsun lover, but nowadays if I see a new Tsundere they just feel.........generic, esp. compared to all the other tsuns I've come to kyaaa upon over the years.

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1 hour ago, Nekolover said:

Meh. Everything is Generic. 

Not everything... but the stuff that isn't generic rarely sells as well as the most generic ones, lol. 

For instance... the heroine that left the biggest impression on me in the last few years was Kamio Ami from Semiramis no Tenbin, and that is because there are literally no heroines with the same persona/archetype in any of the VNs I've played.  However, she is definitely an acquired taste... (she is a part of my ideal VN harem)

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As an example of non-generic heroines...

Ami (as mentioned above) from Semiramis no Tenbin

Kagome from Comyu

Shizuku from Evolimit

Belche from Draculius

Shion and Kaede from Bradyon Veda (though that is as much a function of the VN's weirdness as anything else)

Kon-su from Tokyo Necro

All of the Devils Devel Concept heroines

Fluorite from Komorebi no Nostalgica

Shugotate's secret heroine (who she is is a spoiler, as is the fact that she is unusual, lol)

The fact is that atypical heroines are rare in VNs in general, and charage/moege almost exclusively use heroines deliberately fit into an obvious archetypical role.

 

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2 hours ago, Clephas said:

Not everything... but the stuff that isn't generic rarely sells as well as the most generic ones, lol. 

For instance... the heroine that left the biggest impression on me in the last few years was Kamio Ami from Semiramis no Tenbin, and that is because there are literally no heroines with the same persona/archetype in any of the VNs I've played.  However, she is definitely an acquired taste... (she is a part of my ideal VN harem)

 

That not what I meant. The reason something is generic is because people like it. Is popular.  The less popular it is, the less generic it will be.  Generic to me isn't bad but how it is execute that will determine if I like it or hate.   

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There is also a limit to just how many different character traits there are in the range of "common personalities". After 700 VNs you've met them all so of course you'll have to go looking for people that are far outside the 2 standard deviations for normality in personality traits. That said, I'm quite sure there is severe bias in moege since the true number of tsundere osananajimi in the entire world is probably about 4. They just happened to capture a certain charm that is unique in not requiring much emotional investment since their tsun side is more comical than offensive and the fact they are dere at the end gives an overwhelming sense of achievement. Narusegawa was amazing as the first anime tsundere I was introduced to, but it was pretty new back then...

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I feel like that almost in every charage/moege I have read there is at least 1 heroine that while being really for example generic tsundere osanananajimi still has some kind of interesting trait that makes me remember her. But maybe I have not played enough kusoge. :shrug:

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1 hour ago, ittaku said:

There is also a limit to just how many different character traits there are in the range of "common personalities". After 700 VNs you've met them all so of course you'll have to go looking for people that are far outside the 2 standard deviations for normality in personality traits. That said, I'm quite sure there is severe bias in moege since the true number of tsundere osananajimi in the entire world is probably about 4. They just happened to capture a certain charm that is unique in not requiring much emotional investment since their tsun side is more comical than offensive and the fact they are dere at the end gives an overwhelming sense of achievement. Narusegawa was amazing as the first anime tsundere I was introduced to, but it was pretty new back then...

6

I find tsunderes cute rather than comical.  

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3 minutes ago, Nekolover said:

I find tsunderes cute rather than comical.  

So do I. I was specifically talking about when they're being tsun, it's not like it makes you cringe. You smile, amused, and think they're cute.

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2 hours ago, ittaku said:

That said, I'm quite sure there is severe bias in moege since the true number of tsundere osananajimi in the entire world is probably about 4.

Where are they?! :pyaa: 

I will pay good money for this information! 

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5 hours ago, Dergonu said:

Where are they?! :pyaa: 

I will pay good money for this information! 

 

I am dead serious here, my 15-year-old sister is a Tsundere.  She a pain but so cute but such a fucking pain too.  You should be careful with what you ask for dude. 

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1 hour ago, Nekolover said:

I am dead serious here, my 15-year-old sister is a Tsundere.  She a pain but so cute but such a fucking pain too.  You should be careful with what you ask for dude. 

Lucky :wafuu:

(I love tsunderes. I know, I'm crazy.)

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2 hours ago, Dergonu said:

Lucky :wafuu:

(I love tsunderes. I know, I'm crazy.)

tsunderes has this wierd scale of being painful to watch and being cute. This has made a very wierd love/hate relationship with me and tsundere.

but its fine, I have my coodere's <3

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