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My experience with Gameplay VNs


Clephas

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These are just a few thoughts that I've had after experiencing various gameplay VNs over the years. 

First, understand that I see VNs as reading material (in the same vein as manga but with the addition of voice, some animation, and detailed narration) first and games second.  Second, the type of gameplay most likely to be fused to a VN (strategy or turn-based rpg) are ones I played for well over a decade before I first encountered VNs, so I have at least some qualifications to evaluate them.

First, for the gameplay...  no matter how you express it, the average VN gameplay is several levels below the average console strategy game, srpg, or jrpg in terms of quality and design.  Some of the best of the type - such as the Ikusa Megami series - just barely reach the same level as stuff released before the turn of the century as far as those two aspects go. 

Second, balance... in a VN hybrid, having a good balance between the story and gameplay is vital.  In other words, the grinding needs to be minimalized and difficulty should be adjustable.  VN hybrids without adjustable difficulty levels (with an easy version that really is easy) tend to result in a VN where the story is told in snippets between long stretches of grindy gameplay (Softhouse Chara's games tend to have this flaw in excess).

Third is feature creep... a lot of hybrids have weird gameplay features that make the game confusing without really adding anything enjoyable to the game.  An example of this is the recruitment system from the 'breeder' Venus Blood games.  To be blunt, this game mechanic, while fitting in with the atmosphere in the story, made the games unnecessarily complicated, and not in a good way.

Fourth... story pacing.  A lot of hybrids have horrible pacing.  In particular, many of them start out really well, grasping the reader/player with a dramatic prologue or first few chapters... then suddenly become a complete slog or grind in the mid-game.  To be honest, the most egregious offender in this case are strategy-conquest VNs, where the story won't progress significantly until you've achieved an artificial goal, like conquest of a certain region.  Generally speaking, most strategy-conquest VNs (such as Sengoku Rance or Madou Koukaku) start out really well, with an interesting beginning to the story... and suddenly become devoid of story for about thirty hours if you don't act in exactly the right way.  The Sengoku Hime and Sangoku Hime series are classic examples of this.  Both series tend to have first-rate beginnings, but the story gets put to the wayside pretty early in the game.  As a result, you essentially get stuck playing a sub-par strategy game for ten to fifteen hours before you manage to restart the plot.  This is tiring and boring, to say the least.

My conclusion?  Generally speaking, VN hybrids can be good, but that is only if the VN aspects don't become an adjunct for the third-rate gameplay that tends to be tacked onto them.

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I fully agree here. I've a Steam account with a gazillion of games (I'll probably never find the time to play) if I want to really play somehing with good gameplay. So if I read a VN I want to mainly 'read' not play. The Gameplay parts should just be a nice distraction, and grinding is definitely the last thing I want to do in a VN. For that reason I usually prefer more 'second-rated' gameplay VN's which have more simple but fast past-paced systems like in Koihime, Haruka or Demonion.

Rare exceptions for me would be very high quality titles like Eushully stuff because they have both very refined gameplay systems and good content inbetween (judging by Kamidori). Still unsure if I should give Seinarukana a try. Receptions are mixed and the gameplay seems to be very grindy again.

Oh btw, if you really plan to play Eushully's new Sankai Ou no Yubiwa, then you better be prepared for some severe disappointment. And not just in the way of 'just average' like last year's Kami no Rhapsody, but more along the lines of so utterly horrible that it's the worst thing they ever released. Ratings on VNDN and EGS are shockingly bad. I also consider it somehow weaker in the artistic area than their previous titles, so they might really have messed it up completely this year. Well, at least my Eushully backlog won't get even bigger this year as it already is... :sleep:

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5 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

I fully agree here. I've a Steam account with a gazillion of games (I'll probably never find the time to play) if I want to really play somehing with good gameplay. So if I read a VN I want to mainly 'read' not play. The Gameplay parts should just be a nice distraction, and grinding is definitely the last thing I want to do in a VN. For that reason I usually prefer more 'second-rated' gameplay VN's which have more simple but fast past-paced systems like in Koihime, Haruka or Demonion.

Rare exceptions for me would be very high quality titles like Eushully stuff because they have both very refined gameplay systems and good content inbetween (judging by Kamidori). Still unsure if I should give Seinarukana a try. Receptions are mixed and the gameplay seems to be very grindy again.

Oh btw, if you really plan to play Eushully's new Sankai Ou no Yubiwa, then you better be prepared for some severe disappointment. And not just in the way of 'just average' like last year's Kami no Rhapsody, but more along the lines of so utterly horrible that it's the worst thing they ever released. Ratings on VNDN and EGS are shockingly bad. I also consider it somehow weaker in the artistic area than their previous titles, so they might really have messed it up completely this year. Well, at least my Eushully backlog won't get even bigger this year as it already is... :sleep:

A lot of it is that the central story is so... uninteresting.  Pirates? That would be fine if it didn't sound like something out of Pirates of the Caribbean based on the IM world.  What makes it worse is the multiple protagonists thing... to be blunt, Eushully handles single protagonists just fine, but when they split their attention, things tend to get boring.  Eushully specializes in dramatic stories with a central protagonist, and I honestly thought that the decision to make all the faction leaders into story protagonists was horrible while reading about it.  After all, with strategy games, just managing a single story would be a pain in the ass...

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27 minutes ago, Clephas said:

A lot of it is that the central story is so... uninteresting.  Pirates? That would be fine if it didn't sound like something out of Pirates of the Caribbean based on the IM world.  What makes it worse is the multiple protagonists thing... to be blunt, Eushully handles single protagonists just fine, but when they split their attention, things tend to get boring.  Eushully specializes in dramatic stories with a central protagonist, and I honestly thought that the decision to make all the faction leaders into story protagonists was horrible while reading about it.  After all, with strategy games, just managing a single story would be a pain in the ass...

I think the idea had potential, but naturally if you can't pull it off... things can get messy.

Astronauts Dungeon of Regalias also seems to be a bit underwhelming so far, and if Alice Soft also screws it up it'll be a pretty bad year for gameplay titles. Though at least Dragoon 2 seems to perform better than I thought.

But the titles this year don't look that great so far anyway (I emphasize the word 'look'). Are you really sure this will end better than last year?!

Though there's still August's new Sen no Hatou on the horizon - a glimmer of hope... :kosame:

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10 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

Oh btw, if you really plan to play Eushully's new Sankai Ou no Yubiwa, then you better be prepared for some severe disappointment. And not just in the way of 'just average' like last year's Kami no Rhapsody, but more along the lines of so utterly horrible that it's the worst thing they ever released. Ratings on VNDN and EGS are shockingly bad. I also consider it somehow weaker in the artistic area than their previous titles, so they might really have messed it up completely this year. Well, at least my Eushully backlog won't get even bigger this year as it already is... :sleep:

That is sad to hear. I like pirate theme games and wanted to try this out as my first Eushully vn, but I guess it's not worth it then... :( 

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11 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

I think the idea had potential, but naturally if you can't pull it off... things can get messy.

Astronauts Dungeon of Regalias also seems to be a bit underwhelming so far, and if Alice Soft also screws it up it'll be a pretty bad year for gameplay titles. Though at least Dragoon 2 seems to perform better than I thought.

But the titles this year don't look that great so far anyway (I emphasize the word 'look'). Are you really sure this will end better than last year?!

Though there's still August's new Sen no Hatou on the horizon - a glimmer of hope... :kosame:

I might take a look at Regalias later... I do plan to do one quick playthrough of Sankai, but - like I said - I'm not excited about it.  From my experiences with Eushully, the difference between their successes and their failures tends to be as wide as the Red Sea in terms of quality. 

Even at their worst, they generally have some awesome moments... Madou Koukaku's gameplay was pretty iffy, but the actual story was first-rate.  Kami no Rhapsody, Himegari, and Kamidori are all examples of Eushully games that failed to wow me though.  I dropped Kamidori about halfway through because the story was boring me, and the same went for Himegari... 

On the other hand, their truly great works, like IMZ, rank right up there with the best jrpgs and VNs I've ever read/played...

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IMZ is also my favorite. But I found out Baldr Sky that I like a lot too and it had some gameplay in it.  Sankai Ou no Yubiwa is really not good. I can confirm that. I finished the first part of one character. The problem is that there almost no story to read :S. 

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9 hours ago, LordBlane said:

IMZ is also my favorite. But I found out Baldr Sky that I like a lot too and it had some gameplay in it.  Sankai Ou no Yubiwa is really not good. I can confirm that. I finished the first part of one character. The problem is that there almost no story to read :S. 

Well shit... if they can't even manage as much story as Madou Koukaku had, it probably isn't worth playing at all...  The Baldr Sky series integrates the gameplay so intimately into the story that it feels like an extension of the plot rather than an interruption, lol.

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sankai is pretty bad, yes, even that much of a apparent fail for their related staffmembers to promise some kind of improvement at a point (patch/overhauled version, or whatsoever), simply to calm those raging fans down. played its demo few weeks ago & been severly dissappointed by the whole darn thing - no idea what fucked up their brains, but them willingly decide on releasing semi-polished & halfbaked products like this one is what´s going to lead a company straight to doom, which i cant, btw. wont feel negative about (there´s no place for nostalgia when garbage costs alot of money), such is capitalism after all & history showed us that new stars are often born out of the rotten corpses of old.

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