Impress a normie!

[Vorathiel]

Every now and then pops up a new list of 'starter' VNs. Like Katawa, like G Maou, like Majikoi.
But to get entranced into that you must have at least some knowledge about anime/manga, to get those tropes, to not get them to totally surprise you.
Also - even if they're neat/good/great for us, would they be as good for people, who are completly new to a genre and have no connections to anime, besides maybe Dragon Ball?

Let's make a list of VNs, which might not only get new people accustomed to a genre, but to really impress them.

To use the VNs I mentioned:
- Katawa is bland, simple charage. Nice, but nothing 'wow', and filled with not really exciting SoL.
- Majikoi is a porn game, so major turn off. It's comedy gold, but probably mote to people really accustomed to usuall japanesse tropes and cliches than to a 'normie'.
- G, even without porn is still trope'y and have a lot of SoL, but actually it might be closest to 'make impression' on people of them three.

So, what would you recommend?
Which VNs are so good, that even people who usually read books and watching tv series would really enjoy?


I'll start with those:
- The House in FataMorgana - it's like multimedia book. Great story, great read impressive presentation. Probably closest thing to 'not typical VN' I ever seen in this medium.
- Phenomeno - I know it's short, but it's probably as best as this genre can be used. Really immersive, really scary, really tensionfull. Whish to see more horrors, but oh well. If something is going to impress a normie, it wouild be a good, short, compact scary story. Still a few typical JP tropes though.
- ...Steins Gate? It woulkd be really hard to chew on chuunibyou protagonist at start and get through all those cliched characters...but maybe not? People not used to anime pouldn't know about those tropes so those characters might be fresh to them. And story is probably the greates one ever.


and maybe those:
- Umineko? Never read them, so don't know.
- Danganronpa? Hyperactive VN with gameplay. Would interest many people, but would it really impress anybody? Especailyl people who are not into video games, and infantilization of characters might turn them off?

 

Post your propositions below!

[TexasDice]

Ace Attorney.

 

Not really a VN, but it's a great soil to let the VN seeds grow on.

[Zidan209]

Narcissu - Short, kinetic novel, that will leave you speechless, and no sexual content. That s actually my impression of it.

Clanned (haven t yet read that one) - no sexual content, slice of life drama.

I think it s just best for a starter VN to not have sexual content, or at least a small ammount of it. Because if someone new, who has no knowdledge about this stuff, might just think it s for people without life, and even might think that all other VNs are just porn. 

That, ofc, is no problem if the starter has no life and is looking for some hentai, but that s rare i guess.

 

I could also add my favorite VN, and actually my first one of a larger scale Everlasting summer

- very small ammount of sexual content, if you don t have the patch, you don t miss anything; the story is awesome with a bit of fantasy; best soundtrack ever; and the impression you get after at least one route is undescribable

[john 'mr. customer' smith]

Planetarian.

It was pretty much my first encounter with (serious) anime/manga/vn tropes. It has a very stereotypically enthusiastic anime character, but the fact that she is a robot built only to please (japanese?) customers made that very easy to swallow for me. It also has stellar writing and presentation and some really beautiful and impactful moments, and you can read it in an evening. I'd be lying if I said I'd had much success trying to get friends to read and like it, but I still believe you don't need any experience in anime/manga to enjoy it.

[RedK]

Tsukihime

[sanahtlig]

School Days is one of the easier titles for those wary of text games to get into, since it's like an interactive anime.

[Zakamutt]

^if you can take literally everything else

True Remembrance is fairly short, has no porn, is free, and p. good; the themes also don't seem overly Fapanese to me. However its somewhat episodic nature in the start might make people quit before they get to interesting stuff, so idk how well it works.

In the same vein, you could try Blue*, though that one makes me even less sure. Has the free/noporn thing, not that short though but not super long either. The writing for the translation is... interesting, at least. It tries hard and sometimes falls flat on its face, basically

[Deep Blue]

giving a vn that last more than 30 hours to a person that is just starting is not a good idea imo, specially not >100 like clannad

I think Katawa Shoujo is still the perfect vn to this day.

But if you insist this is my list:

In the very short range: dustmania this one will "blown" everyones brains out (literally)

To replace g-senjou what better visual novel other than one of the first vns written by looseboy: A profile ? Nothing stands out better than this, purest of his work 

Finally for those casuals but who still are eager to play something amazing yet not really long, with some amazing story and a little bit of action: sakura dungeon

 

 

.............................................................................................................................

 

For the short length VNs: True Remembrance, sweet story, no eroge at all, same applies to one thousand lies and both of them are free.

Narcissu: to introduce them into the utsuge genre  

Saya no uta: I don't have to say anything about this one (the content in this one might turn some readers away)

Lucy - Geunyeoga Baladeon Geos -, short and with some sci-fi elements, no eroge.

Fata morgana, agree with this one.

Finally this one is amazing in every single aspect, the only downside is the "hard" content (shouldnt be a problem for any vn fan and it would also introduce them into what vns might bring them in the future ): Swan song

 

[iamnoob]

Planetaria / Narcissu

 

The biggest problem will be for them to actually finish the damn thing. Shorter VNs with a strong 'closed' story (aka no large universe with tons of lore) would be best.

[Makudomi]

3 hours ago, TexasDice said:

Ace Attorney.

 

Not really a VN, but it's a great soil to let the VN seeds grow on.

This. It introduces the storytelling medium while being an entertaining experience and relatively challenging puzzle for gamers of other persuasions. I was so taken with how the stories were told as a 12-year-old that I began to actively seek out other games like it, which naturally led me to VNs. Kara no Shoujo and its associated titles ended up being exactly what I was looking for, although I imagine that people more interested in the comedy/drama elements would feel at home with different VNs.

[Funyarinpa]

The Zero Escape VNs (999 and VLR) are damned good at getting people into VNs- Gameplay interjections, engaging story, great soundtrack and characters. Only the art could pose a problem, but with 95% of VNs out there being generic-as-hell anime style that shouldn't be too much of a deterrent. 

Agreed that the proverbial "beginner's VN" shouldn't be very long, nor should it have sex scenes- Ideally sex in this stuff would not be much of a problem, but it does change things unfortunately.

As for whether it should include anime tropes and the like, I am torn. On one hand, the lack of those tropes in most cases make for a far better experience, in the other hand, including the tropes would be far more descriptive of the medium overall.

[solidbatman]

You either need interactivity, or a super unique story, and lacking either of those, really really good execution of a "trope". That rules out things like Katawa Shoujo, Clannad, MajiKoi, or basically any of the really popular VNs in this circle. Also, rule out porn. Big no no for most people getting into VNs. Sure you might be able to name an exception or two, but those people are outside the norm. 

 

So, what does that leave us with? Short kinetic VNs that focus on telling a single story, really well, things like Planetarian, and Narcissu. For interactivity, we can look towards Analogue: A Hate Story, Ace Attorney, Corpse Party, Danganronpa and even to a certain extent, the Tell Tale games (I'm aware that these generally are not considered VNs, but in my eyes, they at their core, do the same things that VNs do to make themselves unique). And finally, super unique stories, things like Phenomeno, The House in Fata Morgana, and Cave Cave Deus Videt. 

 

"But Bats! What about X VN or Y VN!" Chances are, if you are listing anything with a common route, it will not catch the attention of a "normie". Unless the common route, is short, and generally advances the overall story, you will lose the interest of most newcomers to VNs. I say this mostly from experience. Lets take a look at my early VNs I've read.

-Analogue: A Hate Story -- common route line sort of blurry, but advances the actual story

-Ever 17 -- common route is like 20 minutes long before splitting off into one of four directions

-Clannad -- Long common route, but with enough variation to not wear too much on the reader. Subsequent playthroughs can get tedious with changes based off choices, when wanting to get into the route. Also, main story is locked away, HUGE no for newcomers in my experience

-Steins;Gate -- This is a tricky one for sure. Solid story, but takes a while to kick off. Can be a turn off to newcomers wanting the real story (though if memory serves, character routes can be skipped and the true story can be unlocked without character arcs completed. Feel free to correct me.) 

-Planetarian -- Good for newcomers, short, focuses on two characters and their relationship, lack of world story means little time on lore. No common

-Corpse Party -- adventure VN, plenty of trial and error, lack of skip make it a tough pill to swallow except for the patient, and if youre patient, you likely already are reading longer, more celebrated VNs in the community like Majikoi and LB! No common route

 

When I explain VNs to people, for example my girlfriend, they tend to be most interested in the shorter, more unique sounding experiences and less in the long, multi-route, high school setting. I will never get my girlfriend to read Clannad, but Planetarian is something she is loving at the moment. She adores The House in Fata Morgana but has absolutely no interest in Majikoi or Katawa Shoujo. Same deal with a co-worker of mine. Same with an old high school friend of mine. All 3 of these people enjoy anime, but don't watch a ton of it. They enjoy manga but do not read a ton of it. They are "normies" and just like with anime and manga, a VN is going to need to stand out like the color of this text in a sea of same looking text. 

[littleshogun]

If I may honest here, it was quite hard to get people impressed by VN here, especially if the goal of introducing VN here was to make people enjoying VN for very long time here. I think for the VN, all of the user above already give good opinion imo. Although if I may suggest here, maybe short VN here would be a little help to introduce newcomer to VN here. My example here would be

1. Shinikiss - Quite depressive VN, although if some people mind common route because of choice, this should be good here (There's only one choice for the entire game here, and the choice was very decisive for which route you'll enter). Had some sex scene of course.
2. Kikokugai - Short and kinetic VN with the story about revenge, full of action and the OST was very action oriented there. You could choose between old version which didn't had voice and new version which had voice. There's sex scene in both version here, but if newcomer here didn't like the sex scene, might as well considering got the remake because the scene CG was toned down there (I'd read remake version by the way and already finished it).
3. Shuffle - My first story oriented eroge here. Obviously had sex scene here of course, but for the length it was quite nice I think (Not too long and not too short here either). I think this VN also good to introduce some elements which will present in many moege/charage there.
4. True Remembrance - Short kinetic VN, and the opening song was quite good. The premise was like some people who had the job to erase patient's memory in order to recover the patient from the disease (It was quite hard to explain here).

I think that's all I could think of what VN that should be introduced to newbie here. Although maybe my VN list here would be not so useful here though. Feel free to add more here.

[Zakamutt]

Kikokugai is interesting; the remake, which is the version you should be reading anyways, has sex scenes that remind me significantly more of a (admittedly rather far taken) R-rated movie than the usual VN sex scene. I haven't finished it though, and it certainly isn't the lightest in theme lol. Then again, maybe you're talking to someone who likes that - I'm pretty sure you can still count as a normie at that point :P.

[Kawasumi]

 

[Narcosis]

Always and forever: Planetarian, Narcissu and True Remembrance. If you can't swallow these, vn's aren't meant for you.

[Soulless Watcher]

Anything from Key: Usually not the best, but they are consistently above mediocre and gets people use to the standard VN formula.

Tsukihime: It is dated as fuck, but the story and overall choice mechanics are pretty solid.

The Fault - Milestone Series: It is on steam, so it is easily accessible. The stories are short, but impactfull.  

[Mr Poltroon]

50 minutes ago, Narcosis said:

Always and forever: Planetarian, Narcissu and True Remembrance. If you can't swallow these, vn's aren't meant for you.

You have got to be joking. I've played loads of VNs and I'm pretty sure I can't 'swallow' any of those you've named.
Now you tell me VNs aren't meant for me?

[Narcosis]

Just now, Tiagofvarela said:

You have got to be joking. I've played loads of VNs and I'm pretty sure I can't 'swallow' any of those you've named.
Now you tell me VNs aren't meant for me?

I'm not taking you seriously

[Mr Poltroon]

Just now, Narcosis said:

I'm not taking you seriously

All of those have a depressing tinge to them, I can't handle that! They clearly aren't representative of VNs at large.

To begin with, the notion of a "one-size-fits-all" VN that would introduce any person to VNs sounds ridiculous to me.
Sometimes people don't even know if they'll like a particular genre -- assuming they're like me and they got into VNs before they got into anime. If they like anime, that makes it even easier. There's all sorts of genres; see what anime a given person likes and introduce VNs in the same vein.

There's no one "Starter VN". A list, however, does make more sense. Obviously, these have to consist of good VNs and represent a variety of genres, not a single one: If you gave me your list as an introduction to VNs I'd never have gotten into them.

 

I have no idea what would make good starter VNs, but you'd need to make a much more representative list than those three, to sum up my rambling.

[ChaosRaven]

My suggestions would be certainly Eden and G-Senjou for all ages and Kara no Shoujo for an adult only title. All of those really impressed me with their story and their audio-visual merits.

[Narcosis]

16 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

All of those have a depressing tinge to them, I can't handle that! They clearly aren't representative of VNs at large.

Yet, they aren't called "timeless masterpieces" without a reason or rhyme.

Life's not a bed of roses, my dear friend and honest to good drama often makes good stories. Those titles present the kind of drama, everyone is capable to indulge in and if you're still incapable of that, you're unable to see the world through the prism of feels and clearly don't belong to Homo Sapiens

[solidbatman]

What the average VN likes will typically not be what the average newbie to VNs will like. 

 

To be honest, many people here like VNs because they are VNs, and are "otaku" oriented as much as I hate using that word. The "normie" or average newcomer is not coming to VNs for the same reasons you did. They are looking for a good story, or something fun. Basically, think about a bunch of solidbatmans (less salty maybe) getting into VNs. My criticisms of many VNs match the criticisms of some of the people I've gotten into VNs. In the near future, I plan to have them write them up for a good post/editorial but its something to keep in mind. I keep seeing certain VNs suggested which absolutely would not be good for your average newcomer to VNs. Unless we are talking about the weeb who sits at home all day, and has no hobbies other than Japanese media, many suggestions in this thread are dubious at best. 

Not to pick on anyone, but Kara no Shoujo is a no. It has porn. Eden is possible, but I can't comment on it just yet (haven't read it). Tsukihime, far too dated + Nasu not good for entry level (now having someone watch Fate/Zero and then read Fate/Stay Night; thats a valid enough entry). 

 

Basically, when recommending a VN to a newbie, shift your perspective. Don't recommend what you like. Completely pull yourself away from your current tastes. If you know the person, it makes your job much easier, so get an idea first, of what they enjoy, and what they dislike. Katawa Shoujo is great for some people, but would have others running to the hills away from it after 20 minutes. The House in Fata Morgana is great for some people, but too heavy for others. 

Like salty Tiago said, one size does not fit all. There is no single starter VN list, and will never be a good one. A better way to pursue something like a starter list, is draw up a list of comparable titles in other mediums.

"If you like the Atelier series, you may also enjoy the Kamidori."

"If you like the action in Avengers, you may like Cho Dengeki Stryker."  

"If you like big tits, murder mystery, and fucking your sister, Touma Kojirou no Tantei File is the VN for you." 

and so on and so on. This might actually be a good project for someone more motivated than myself. Draw up a starter VN list, comparing various VNs to similarly themed works in other mediums. 

[ChaosRaven]

3 minutes ago, solidbatman said:

Not to pick on anyone, but Kara no Shoujo is a no. It has porn. Eden is possible, but I can't comment on it just yet (haven't read it). Tsukihime, far too dated + Nasu not good for entry level (now having someone watch Fate/Zero and then read Fate/Stay Night; thats a valid enough entry).

Basically, when recommending a VN to a newbie, shift your perspective. Don't recommend what you like. Completely pull yourself away from your current tastes. If you know the person, it makes your job much easier, so get an idea first, of what they enjoy, and what they dislike. Katawa Shoujo is great for some people, but would have others running to the hills away from it after 20 minutes. The House in Fata Morgana is great for some people, but too heavy for others.

I stand to my suggestion of Kara no Shojo. It might have porn but it hasn't much, and people weren't exactly running away screaming either when they were playing the Witcher games.

Kara no Shoujo is one of the rare titles with an adult protagonist and the whole theme consisting of art, audio and story is very mature and has an almost western touch.

The only thing I'd be worried about is that it has rather gory and psychological heavy stuff in it. So I wouldn't advice it to some who can't even deal with stuff like the Silcene of the Lambs.

[solidbatman]

Just now, ChaosRaven said:

I stand to my suggestion of Kara no Shojo. It might have porn but it hasn't much, and people weren't exactly running away screaming either when they were playing the Witcher games.

Kara no Shoujo is one of the rare titles with an adult protagonist and the whole theme consisting of art, audio and story is very mature and has an almost western touch.

The only thing I'd be worried about is that it has rather gory and psychological heavy stuff in it. So I wouldn't advice it to some who can't even deal with stuff like the Silcene of the Lambs.

Yeah and in the first hour the main character's sister walks into the room naked for no reason.