Jump to content

Root Double -Before Crime * After Days- Review Discussion


Decay

Recommended Posts

By the way welcome to Fuwanovel, @kilicool64. Actually I'd been following your head (GundamAce or ShadowBlackMage) in gamefaqs at Infinity Discussion Series on Ever17 PC page. And from the moment I'd read Root Double review from GundamAce back at 2012, I knew that I must follow his and your group, Lemnisca Translation for Root Double translation progress. And since technically I'm Fuwanovel member, I'm quite disagree that some of the Gamefaqs poster told us that Fuwanovel user reaction thinking the game was bad. In fact I think I also surprised that the reaction for this game was not so good, since personally I think this game had nany potential. And by the way, I think this game was Nakazawa answer to 999.

For Decay cliche thing, I'm fine with that so no problem here. Well, if Decay didn't read killicool spoiler, to each of their own I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, kilicool64 said:

You just exposed your full name to everyone who has access to the credits with that post.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The stuff about teenagers triumphing over evil is quite an oversimplification. If anything, Natsuhiko's group failed completely at stopping the attack on LABO and wouldn't have even escaped from the place alive without help. Plus, even if they had succeeded at preventing the execution of Ukita, Watase, Dojima and Hiyama's plan, that could have actually benefited LABO's higher-ups and Rokumei City's government by preventing the truth from being exposed to the public.

Ena, Kuroda and Higa's own attempt at bringing the truth to light would've had a greater chance of succeeding, though who knows if three people with a single gun really would have stood a chance at forcefully gaining access to Area Zero. They sure as hell were a lot more prepared than Natsuhiko's group though.

Judging by your review, I get the impression you thought Watase's behavior at the end of Root B was genuine and were disappointed when it turned out Nagisa had manipulated his memories and emotions. While I can see why some people would react like that and I myself was a little disappointed that the two primary villainous factions of the VN didn't have any core representatives play a major role in the story, I certainly wouldn't say that the whole memory manipulation twist causes RD to suffer from binary morality. Watase's past self was still not exactly what I'd call perfectly sane. He felt such immense guilt over the fact that Wataru had sacrificed herself to save him that he felt obligated to avenge her, even if doing so required him to throw his current life away and stain his hands with sin. That's a pretty messed up mindset. His encounter with Nagisa and subsequent descent into complete insanity upon coming across Natsuhiko and Mashiro shows how that desire to avenge Wataru could've easily caused him to head down a much worse route had Ukita had no sympathy for LABO's test subjects and told him a different story about why Alice caused the Great Rokumei City Arson.

In general, RD spends a lot of time fleshing out the mentalities of a very diverse cast and showing how none of them are inherently better than others, but that all of them could have both positive and negative effects. Nagisa's memory manipulation shows the worst possible examples of what these mentalities could lead to, but there's more than that. Let's not forget that Salyu was so blindly determined to save Natsuhiko and Mashiro that she ended up repeatedly trying to kill people due to being too narrow-minded and distrustful of others. A few of Root A's bad endings even show that she would've been perfectly willing to go through with it.

Or how Ukita, despite his purely altruistic motivations, decided that working with terrorists whose ideology he completely disagrees with is a necessary evil. I remember him saying something to Watase along the lines of "Hey, I don't like these guys' methods either. But how else are we supposed to put an end to Rokumei City's wrongdoings?" I wouldn't be surprised if some actual terrorists had similar motives.

Finally, while it's true that the core members of the villainous factions don't get much development, even they aren't firmly on the black end of the moral spectrum. Q started off as a fairly harmless group of people who simply felt uncomfortable about the idea of people being able to read their minds. It wasn't until Rokumei City's government scapegoated them for the Arson and therefore exposed itself to them as an oppressive regime that regulated information and censored criticism that Q's members decided that they needed to resort to extreme methods to make their voice heard.

And even Rokumei City's government and LABO's higher-ups weren't purely evil. Their censorship of various research results related to BC, especially Senses Sympathy, was somewhat understandable. After all, a lot of people were already feeling uncomfortable about communicators being able to read their minds. The antagonism towards BC would have skyrocketed if they had learned that some communicators can do much worse things than that, to the point where a single Level 6 communicator could easily cause the death of hundreds of people either deliberately or simply by overusing their powers. And while there was nothing sympathetic about researching BC through unethical means in order to make money, it's definitely true that gaining a better understanding of how it works and how to counter it is of extreme importance. If Miyoko's theory about exposure to M particles causing the IGF2R gene of egg cells and fetuses to mutate is true, then the logical conclusion is that eventually, everyone will have Rank S aptitude. That would be an insanely dangerous scenario in which a single N-ified communicator could cause a chain reaction leading to the collapse of human society. So it's definitely true that researching BC is absolutely vital for humanity's future. It's just that some researchers thought accelerating their research through unethical means is a necessary evil in order to accomplish this. Like Eriguchi. As despicable as he may have been, the reason he resorted to human experimentation is because after Alice had used Senses Sympathy on him and discovered his darkest secrets, he had developed an intense fear of BC, having witnessed the danger it poses himself, and become determined to save humanity from it through excessive research.

 

I'm more worried about the random dude typing my name on Google. I would never have added my name to the credits in the first place if I were so paranoid.

Anyway, I'm sick with this OT, next time I will talk about the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, WinterfuryZX said:

I'm reclutant to use my real name on the internet where it could be associated with my nickname, it's Andrea if you really wanna know. Since name is quite common, I suppose doing that once in a while doesn't hurt.

I did not really to know, but it is not like you'd be stalked by someone from the forums

Funny how Andrea Mello is a meme here in Brazil, so I laughed a little, sorry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

@caesarbear Well, I think killicool64 back at VNDB answered both of your question, here's his post back at VNDB for answeing your 2nd question. Spoiler below.

Spoiler

 

Again, most likely Salyu. My guess is that after Ena continued to trust Watase, she decided that she can no longer afford to spare her. At this point, she had managed to reverse-engineer the bombs and have Alice extract the sound effects used for triggering their detonation. Her plan was to detonate the bomb in one of the staircase rooms after luring Watase and Ena there with blood from a transfusion pack and locking them inside it. However, she didn't have enough time to make sure the bomb actually works. After sealing the door, she decided to briefly listen to Watase and Ena's conversation, hoping that Ena would expose herself as Watase's accomplice, therefore justifying her murder. But when Watase discovered the bomb, she assumed he had some plan to dismantle it, so she decided to activate it right away. Unfortunately for her, she couldn't use the instant detonation signal for this because the explosion could have hit her as well unless she was at a distance too great for the signal to reach the bomb through the door. So she used the one minute detonation signal, then retreated.

Oh, and by the way the culprit who stole AD was also Salyu. This should also answer your first question.

 

And since this is your first post at Fuwanovel, welcome to the forum and hope you enjoy your stay here, even though it's not introduction thread here though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, caesarbear said:

Just finished the game but still had some questions

  Hide contents

1. Who stole the ADs from the lab?

2. Who close the door that trapped both ena and watase @.@

anyone can help me answer it maybe I missed some information

Did you actually read the Xtend episode? Because your first question is answered there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/28/2016 at 8:15 PM, Eclipsed said:

Great review as usual. I hate unsatisfying mysteries, so I'll be sure to tread carefully when I pick this up in 2018.

Eyy I'm 2 years early, awesome :sachi:

 

Root Double looks like it'll be fun. The Senses system looks convoluted but I think it's more just a flavorful way to give the player some choice in how to react to situations. Which btw, I gotta stop being a dumbass and trying to play hero when the protagonist just woke up amnesiac in a burning down facility :makina: 
ubGJ67S.jpg (1267×706)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

I've finished the three normal endings of Root Double now. Actually, the Double route was a lot better than the ones before and compensated for a lot of what was wrong with the previous ones and with B in particular.

Still, I can't seem to get any other ending than the normal ones. The last choice always seem to lead to the same three endings regardless of my choices. I guess I didn't get the 'perfect combination' in one of the many previous choices. Are the other endings really worth restarting route D with a walkthrough? It would be a huge chore to go through that horrible choices system again, so it HAS to be worth it. Furthermore, I won't replay the previous routes A - C no matter what. So if the final endings require different sub-endings from the previous routes, I think I can comfortably live without the other endings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, that's hard to say.  If you use text skip, it will take maybe an hour or two to get the other ending.  That also unlocks the Xtend Episode, which I haven't actually looked at yet so I can't tell you how it is.

I didn't hate the choice system the way that you did, however.  I didn't think it really worked, but I appreciated the attempt to do something different.  So I wouldn't consider it a 'huge chore' to go through with a walkthrough, it's easy.

To answer your question, no.  The final endings don't require different sub-endings from A-C.  The different sub-endings from A-C unlock extra epilogue scenes, but the ending itself can be achieved just from route D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can instantly jump to the next SSS or RAM prompt or unread line in Root Double by pressing R. Should make getting content you missed a lot easier. If you want to know what you need to do to avoid the three normal endings in Root D,

Spoiler

you need to check the memories of Ukita, Jun and Ena in full detail, assuming you haven't done so yet. Doing so will make a prompt show up just before Natsuhiko decides to take a look at Salyu's most recent memories. Set Yuuri's Senses lower than Salyu's here to make something else happen. After this alternate event, you will later by able to adjust all nine characters' Senses during the SSS prompt leading to the normal endings. Set them all to the highest possible level.

I will warn you that if you screwed up a certain something even earlier in Root D, you've been locked onto a penalty branch and will only be able to get two sub-optimal endings exclusive to it. If you want to make sure you avoided it,

Spoiler

have you set Watase's Senses higher than Natsuhiko's right before the end of Chapter 2? If not you'll have to go back there.

Do note however that the penalty branch contains some worthwhile exclusive content, so if you're on it, I would personally recommend seeing it to completion first. If you already managed to avoid it, it might be worth having a look at it later on if you feel like it. I can explain how to get its exclusive content if you like.

It's a shame if you didn't get all the character scenes in Root A and B though. They have plenty of additional characterization. Also, not getting them will make Root D's epilogue a lot shorter. As long as you use Answer Mode to directly select the branches you want and jump past read lines with R, getting them is very easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I’ve finished the true route of Root Double now. It was on hell of a long ride, Steam logged about 75 hours for my play-through, and I still just got about 60% of the achievements. Not that I’d care much about Steam achievements, but still...

1758yr01jp-006.jpg

Anyway, I think it was a good thing that I didn’t get the true route in my first run of route D, since it required the back-stories of several characters which would have slowed the story too much down at the first time. This way I had both, more patience and more interest in the back stories and the ending wrapped it up quite nicely. Route D was by far my favorite from the available routes. It wasn’t just random shit happening anymore, and everything made more sense. The pacing was better and the involved characters managed to grab me on an emotional level for the first time. I could even sympathize with Natsuhiko since his interaction with Watase was rather smooth. Overall, I think they succeeded with what they wanted to reach in this chapter quite well. And not to forget, it had Project N…

Spoiler

cgsam17_.jpg

Honestly, that chick was so broken she freaked the hell out of me. On the other hand, I really felt sorry for her. It’s a pity that she didn’t get more screen time. Would have liked more interaction with her directly and not just her ‘spirits’. She was a magnificent antagonist. Although I didn’t really get why she looked so young considering how old she should have been. But I guess it was certainly explained somewhere.

In general I really appreciate how much effort Regista put into this VN. They certainly worked out the scenario quite well with lots of details, even if going too far and bombarding you with info dumps, over-explanations everything was a common problem of the VN. I also liked that they kept the VN for the most part ‘authentic’ in a similar way like Innocent Grey does. Meaning that the scenario was believable for the most part and the characters didn’t react too over the top exaggerated. The only character who stretched it a bit was probably Salyu with her Bruce Lee antics. The overall atmosphere was also kept on a more serious level and fortunately not ruined it by turning into a goofy comedy festival for some cheap laughs on every occasion. The art was also quite good and not too exaggerated, even if they took some liberties with the girls moe-levels. But well, I could live with that quite comfortably. :P

That’s not to say that the VN didn’t have its fair shared problems since it certainly did. First, lots of stuff got over-explained and lots of scenes were shown from the perspective of different characters resulting in lots of repetition. Another problem was the overuse of some plot devices like finding AD. The biggest problem however, was that they tried to squish everything in one mega route. That works if it’s just a ‘long’ route, but not if it’s just made long because you have to experience it from the perspective of almost a dozen characters, each with their back stories. <_<

Biggest offender here was route B. Route A already stretched it quite a bit in the second half with its repeated AD search and everyone going crazy. But instead of progressing the story and shedding some light into the chaos, the VN completely killed the flow by going backwards, changing protagonist and setting and slowing everything down to a crawl. It got better with route C since it wasn’t too long but it was still one hell of a long time until you reach the real meat of the game which was route D.

Overall, the VN should have been split into two major routes which are played one after another. One focused on Watase and his coworkers and one focused on Natsuhiko and his friends. That way the pacing and story flow would have been much better and you wouldn’t have been forced to digest all the information and back stories in one play-through. Actually, I got a lot more interested in the back stories of some characters when I reached the ending and had a better understanding of the story and its characters. I certainly would have enjoyed route B and C a lot more if it would have been a second play-through.

Oh, and I would have loved some real romance in the VN. It's almost a sin if you have cool chicks like...

Spoiler

2269c163.jpg

... and there's no route for them. :(

Heroine ratings: Kazami = Ena > Jun = Mashiro = Yuuri > Salyu (Actually, it varied quite a bit through the story)

Overall rating: 7,5/10 (Could have easily gotten more if the VN would have been split into two major routes)

Edited by ChaosRaven
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are aware that there's still the Xtend episode left, right? It's basically an anthology of flashbacks. Many of them are just taken straight from Root B or D without any real changes, but there are also some that get new alternate branches, and about 4-5 hours worth of completely new flashbacks. They're not really plot-critical, but do quite a bit to expand on the characterization and world-building. I will warn you though that some of the content there may come off as somewhat incomplete without the optional character scenes in Root A and B and the epilogues in Root D.

Also, getting the new content is a bit annoying because all the copypasta is still being treated as unread lines. I'd suggest selecting the flashbacks one by one, and if a flashback without a key turns out to be an old one, just click on the S. Jump button.

You're wrong about there being no romance in this VN, BTW. You just missed all of it because you didn't get the character scenes and epilogues, and haven't read the Xtend episode yet.

Edited by kilicool64
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...